Chick down phenotypes and genotypes

Posted by: Henk69

Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/08/10 11:39 PM

On request a topic about chick down phenotypes and the genotypes to go with it.
We want to keep this topic clean so every off topic remark will be removed!

Kick-off
e+: chipmunk pattern
e^b: helmet pattern
e^Wh: little pattern (overall yellowish)
E^R: overall dark pattern, dark legs.
E: penguin pattern

leg color often yellowish at start.

Pictures welcome...
Posted by: GSC

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/08/10 11:52 PM

Hope this helps.
Posted by: GSC

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/09/10 04:36 AM

Here are 3 chicks hatched 5 days ago. Dad is cream choc partridge and Mom is a cream carrier choc partidge. The male has an issue with throwing unpatterned chicks sometimes although possibly the female too.


Henk69: typical e^b head pattern, allthough not strict helmet.
Posted by: Wieslaw

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/09/10 04:51 AM

I think the meaning of this thread is like that : you know and are 100 % sure that for example your chicks are pure partridge(concentric pencilling) ebPg/ebPg s+/s+. You make a distinct picture and place it here with discription. It is not so much for discussion but rather for presentation for others. If somebody has doubts/problems with a picture, it can be discussed in a separate thread. Am I on the right track?

This can be deleted.
Posted by: RuffEnuff

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/09/10 05:01 AM

here is my photo bucket file, many i know the off one i guess:

http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/ruffEnuff_photos/down%20colour/

i shall make a point of adding to it.
Posted by: Chook-in-Eire

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/09/10 03:46 PM

eb (melanized)
Barnevelder, double-laced, eb/eb Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml
Posted by: Poultch

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/09/10 07:39 PM

Here's my 2 cents worth (currency: NZ$), considering the exchange rate, probably not worth much:

E/ewh, Co/co, S/S (S/-), B/b (B/-)


Er/ewh, S/- Co/co Id/- (and middle chick is highly suspected Co/Co) [Id=Inhibitor of dermal melanin]


e+/ewh, I/i+ & i+/i+

Posted by: GSC

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/13/10 04:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Henk69
typical e^b head pattern, allthough not strict helmet.

Would some be kind enough to post an eb chick with a 'strict helemet' please? blush
Posted by: Chook-in-Eire

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/13/10 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Henk69
Would some be kind enough to post an eb chick with a 'strict helemet' please? blush

Posted by: Chook-in-Eire

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/13/10 04:07 PM

Seriously though,
this is the best I could find in my photo archive. Note the light-coloured neckline. It's a Barnevelder female.


Edit (addition): Thanks to GSC pointing me back to an old thread I started here, I've found better 'helmet-clad' chicks:

Golden Laced Wyandottes eb/eb, db+/db+, Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml, Co/Co
Posted by: Wieslaw

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 10/25/10 11:52 AM

Most of the following pictures come from My Pet Chicken hatchery:
http://www.mypetchicken.com/catalog/Day-Old-Baby-Chicks-c36.aspx

Genotypes are from :
http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html

Lakenvelder-pattern: eb/eb Co/Co plus melanizer(s)(which one??)



Quail Pattern: e+/e+ Co/Co Ml/Ml s+/s+




Single Laced Silver on eb : eb/eb Pg/Pg Ml/Ml Co/Co S/S



Single Laced Gold on eb: eb/eb Pg/Pg Ml/Ml Co/Co s+/s+


Posted by: Wieslaw

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 10/25/10 11:56 AM

Single Laced Gold Henny feathering on birchen: ER/ER Pg/Pg Db/Db Ml/Ml Co/Co Hf/Hf s+/s+



Birchen : ER/ER S/S



Autosomal barred on birchen, gold, henny feathering : ER/ER Pg/Pg Db/Db Hf/Hf s+/s+


Buff Columbian: eb/eb/ Co/Co s+/s+


Silver Spangled on birchen: ER/ER Pg/Pg Db/Db Ml/Ml S/S

Posted by: Henk69

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 10/27/10 01:44 AM

Note that Hf Henny Feathering is (incomplete) dominant.
Posted by: Wieslaw

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 11/02/10 01:34 PM


Autosomal barred on birchen, silver, henny feathering : ER/ER Pg/Pg Db/Db Hf/Hf S/S


Posted by: RuffEnuff

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 11/11/10 07:34 PM

marbled sebright:





lavender on the right, normal silver on left.
ER, S and Lav+ and lav also possible Hf

however most likely not homozygous for anything.
Posted by: Wieslaw

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 12/22/10 10:31 AM

Silver Quill:e+/e+ S/S+ Pg/Pg Db/Db'




Leghorns: chipmunk e+/e+ s+(background),silver chipmunk e+/e+ S(left), dark brown eb/eb and ?(foreground)

Posted by: Smooth Mule

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 01/25/11 07:21 PM

I want to add my chipmunk striped Large Fowl Araucana chick photo's. I have 5 right now and no two are the same. I am amazed at the subtle differences in the striping, some are complete and bold, some a snip/single line on the head, irregular jagged line, thick and thin lines, bold and fuzzy lines, all sorts of differences.

I'd love to be able to "read" these patterns if they actually designate a particular color or pattern or sex of the chick. I am particularly intrigued by the chick with blue wings.







Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 02/12/11 08:37 AM

Buff laced brahma chicks:


I think these chicks are something like: eb/eb, Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml, Co/Co, I/?, Bl/?
They could possibly also have mahogany, dilute, or autosomal red.

This is the chick down coloration that typically results in my best marked buff laced brahma adults.

Adult coloration can be seen here: http://www.oneearthfarm.com/gallery/chickengallery.html

Dan

Posted by: Smooth Mule

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 03/16/11 06:39 PM

Here is a chick that hatched a couple of days ago from my mixed colors Araucana coop. No clues about which hen but the rooster was the only rooster at that time. I don't have them separated into breeding pens yet.

Here is the chick


Posted by: Henk69

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/17/11 07:50 AM

khaki and dun silver duckwing chick downs:

http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/Henk69/khakisilverduckwing/
Posted by: RyanZierke

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/28/11 06:21 PM

These chicks are ER/e+ Db/db+ Pg/pg+ Ml/ml+ Mh/mh+ Ig+/ig s+
Posted by: KazJaps

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/29/11 08:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Wieslaw
Silver Quill:e+/e+ S/S+ Pg/Pg Db/Db'





These two Silver Quill have very dark legs for e+ day-olds. Either another E locus allele base (eg ER) or another mutation at the Id locus (ie not Id, nor id+)? Could be e+ id^M?
Posted by: Henk69

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/30/11 01:41 AM

Originally Posted By: RyanZierke
These chicks are ER/e+ Db/db+ Pg/pg+ Ml/ml+ Mh/mh+ Ig+/ig s+



What cross are they?
Posted by: Poultch

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/30/11 02:13 AM

E^R's can look very eb like:

E^R, S, Pg/Pg, ml+/ml+, co+/co+, db+/db+
Posted by: RyanZierke

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/30/11 08:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Henk69
Originally Posted By: RyanZierke
These chicks are ER/e+ Db/db+ Pg/pg+ Ml/ml+ Mh/mh+ Ig+/ig s+



What cross are they?

Citron Spangled Hamburg bantam rooster x Silver Duckwing OEGB hen.
Posted by: Henk69

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 05/01/11 12:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Poultch
E^R's can look very eb like:

E^R, S, Pg/Pg, ml+/ml+, co+/co+, db+/db+



How do you know they are pure for Pg?
Posted by: Marvin

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 07/28/11 03:05 PM

Heavy Melanized Er/Er chick

Posted by: Jenks

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/22/11 05:55 AM

Does anyone happen to have a splash e+/e+ photo?
Posted by: Piet

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/22/11 06:51 AM

If I remember correct mine were pretty pale.
Just light reddish striping on yellow background.
no photo
Posted by: Jenks

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/22/11 07:10 AM

Mine looks pale reddish like that with almost silvery bluish stripes - the head and back stripes. I'm not sure what I expected.....but I was a little surprised.
Posted by: Piet

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/22/11 07:44 AM

Sounds like lavendar???
Posted by: Jenks

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/22/11 08:15 AM

I will get a photo this evening!

Edited to say - seems more appropriate to put in the GGG thread!
Posted by: Poultch

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/27/11 02:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Poultch

Er/ewh, S/- Co/co Id/- (and middle chick is highly suspected Co/Co) [Id=Inhibitor of dermal melanin]



the middle chick is wrong. it was: E^R, Pg, Co
Posted by: RuffEnuff

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 10/08/11 06:34 PM

here is an interesting one ER/eb or ewh; I/i; s+. i often get blacks with a red spot somewhere this one is dominant white with the normal black spots associated with dominant white on ER plus the red spot:



Posted by: RuffEnuff

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 10/23/11 08:13 PM

here are a couple of my sebright crosses that hatched to day.

fairly normal sebright down, ER gold:



now this i thought was interesting, still ER gold:

Posted by: SilverSilkie

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 01/13/12 06:32 AM

What should be a bearded Silkie Silver Quail eb/eb S/- * S/S Co/Co Ml/Ml





Posted by: Angela

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 01/15/12 04:48 PM

black silkies can have black chick down without any white at all ( will make a good picture of that soon )

Here is a choco/bleu showgirl pullet :

E/E S/- (ou s+/-) Bl/bl+ choc/- Ml/Ml




And the chick down of a lavender cuckoo silkie ( heterozygote for cuckoo )should be : E/E S/S B/b+ lav/lav Ml/Ml




( sorry again , but my computer don't want to open the option to insert an image , so can someone change the links into pictures ? )

Posted by: Smooth Mule

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 01/15/12 08:20 PM

Any chick down photo's of eb/eb S/S ? Silver Partridge?
Posted by: Angela

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 02/05/12 05:14 PM

Chicks wich came out of a cross between a dark red mahony silkie rooster based on e^Wh and a gold pencilled silkie hen .



( Henk help !)

should be : eb/eWh , s+/s+ ( s+/-) Db/db+ , Co/co+ (?) Pg/pg+ , Ml/ml+ , Mh/mh+ .
Posted by: SilverSilkie

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 02/17/12 04:12 AM

Originally Posted By: RuffEnuff
here is an interesting one ER/eb or ewh; I/i; s+. i often get blacks with a red spot somewhere this one is dominant white with the normal black spots associated with dominant white on ER plus the red spot:





Red spash white "rs" Recessive. Two copies of this gene give a white bird with spashes of red and black. Chicks are white with a red head spot. This gene may be extinct now. It was first isolated in a line of Rhode Island Reds, but it was not maintained nor has it be re-identified.
from : http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page3.html
Posted by: M. J. Conley

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/14/12 08:46 PM

I'm attempting to get hom E 'with no modifiers' (all other plumage 'genes' wildtype) to verify what hatchdown and adult plumage is, BUT aren't the wildtype alleles in the other plumage 'genes' affecting phenotype so it is impossible to get what say hom E phenotype is without modifications,
not feeling so clever, mark
Posted by: Htul

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/15/12 04:10 AM

No doubt they do affect each other: so really, all you can aim for is "E on an otherwise wild-type background" (which is what I thought you were after?)

The potential challenge though is if you have "non wildtype" other alleles that aren't phenotypically evident such as modifiers that don't modify the basic e+ appearance of brown leghorns, but might influence expression of E: eg. you crossing to get the E-like allele that you have onto the brown leghorn background that you have may look different to the same E-like allele crossed onto another strain of brown leghorn.
Posted by: M. J. Conley

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/15/12 04:39 AM

Thanks Htul, i had to read that 2nd paragraph several times (English was my least best subject at school)..
Are you saying that other modifiers on Light Brown Leghorns that we don't know about yet would modify the E alleles effect on the phenotype?
Posted by: Htul

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/15/12 05:59 AM

Originally Posted By: M. J. Conley
...Are you saying that other modifiers on Light Brown Leghorns that we don't know about yet would modify the E alleles effect on the phenotype?


Potentially, yes - but not just "modifiers on Light Brown Leghorns": there could be lots of such modifiers that might act on non-wildtype alleles, that still have no apparent effect on wildtype. So, sure, we take it for granted that light brown leghorns (as a proxy for RJF) are "wildtype" - but how much so? We really oversimply it when we say "light brown leghorn have a "+" genotype except for w/w and Id/Id": surely that is not entirely correct - else why does a leghorn lay say 200+ eggs per year, whereas the RJF would be lucky to lay 20 in a year? (and can anybody claim, with absolute certainty, that such production traits have absolutely no pleiotropic effect on plumage genetics?)

For a related reason, I was inspired to create the following thread on An issue with the use of RJF as a wildtype standard which drew very little interest or comment (other than a lone comment by Kazjaps) - clearly nobody else views this as a potential problem.

Cheers,
htul
Posted by: M. J. Conley

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/15/12 04:45 PM

Thanks Htul, yep, with you now. And I remember that previous thread, but reread it anyway, mark
Posted by: KazJaps

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/17/12 08:24 AM

Considering there don't seem to be as many mutations/modifiers in other poultry species as with chickens, I thought it would be interesting looking at other species day-old chick down MC1R E locus mutations (ie less worries as to whether other mutations modifying E locus alleles).

eg, Turkeys MC1R - two mutations:
(photos from Feathersite and Porter's Rare Heritage Turkeys)
for comparison - wild-type:


Black


--------------
Black-winged Bronze


The last one is interesting in that it is a recessive eumelanising MC1R mutation. Usually MC1R dominant mutations increase eumelanin & recessives reduce eumelanin.

These two mutations have been sequenced:

Variability of the melanocortin 1 receptor (MC1R) gene explains the segregation of the bronze locus in turkey (Meleagris gallopavo).
Vidal O, Viñas J, Pla C.
Poult Sci. 2010 Aug;89(8):1599-602.
Full Paper

p.s. both of the above MC1R turkey mutation alleles are different mutations to chicken E, ER-Leghorn and ER-Fayoumi.

----------------------------
In the above journal paper they also mention the recessive eumelanising mutation in guinea fowl as another MC1R mutation, ie Purple:
(photos from Guinea fowl International website)

wild-type guinea fowl chick:


Royal Purple:


This recessive eumelanising MC1R mutation has been sequenced:

Melanism in guinea fowl (Numida meleagris) is associated with a deletion of Phenylalanine-256 in the MC1R gene.
Vidal O, Araguas RM, Fernández E, Heras S, Sanz N, Pla C.
Anim Genet. 2010 Dec;41(6):656-8.
abstract

-------------------
Interesting how all these MC1R eumelanising mutations add white to day-old chick down. The turkey black mutation is very similar in phenotype to the chicken E allele, ie down is white ventrally & face, plus wing flights, and the rest black. Plus epidermal pigment on the shanks.
Posted by: Henk69

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 05/13/12 01:06 AM

These are a mix of dun silver duckwing males and dun gold duckwing female chicks:



The females are S-Id/-, the males s+-Id/S-id+
Father: gold duckwing modern english game bantam with yellow legs
Mothers: khaki silver duckwing dutch bantam
Posted by: Smooth Mule

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 06/17/12 08:46 PM

Mottled?

[img:left]http://www.backyardchickens.com/image/id/7536062/width/458/height/462/flags/LL[/img]

Posted by: Wieslaw

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 06/19/12 05:24 PM

Yes.
Posted by: Smooth Mule

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 06/27/12 09:21 PM

Chocolate (recessive/sex linked).....this is the beginning of my LF Chocolate Araucana project



Posted by: SilverSilkie

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 07/15/12 12:33 PM

E: penguin pattern
B: white dot on the back of the head
...
Posted by: Wieslaw

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 07/15/12 01:59 PM

Just a reminder: the idea with this thread was to present the pictures of the chicks with known genotypes(more or less sure). Questions are to be asked in ordinary threads. It will be impossible to weed out 'the noise'.
Posted by: Marvin

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 09/04/12 09:59 AM

Crele Old English Game, Wildtype e+ sexlinked barring, autosexing breed, hens show normal duckwing chick down, males show a diluted chick down and a yellow headspot



Posted by: SilverSilkie

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 10/22/12 02:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Jenks
Does anyone happen to have a splash e+/e+ photo?


This are chicks from Blue Silver Partridge X Blue Silver Partridge. Since they have so pale down I think they are Splash but on eb



I expected Splash Partridge to look as this one eb/eb S/S * S/- Pg/!? Co/!? Bl/Bl :


Or should it look as this one, maybe here double doses Columbia Co/Co and no Pattern gene pg+/pg+ !? :
Posted by: Canuck_Bock_RAT

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 12/22/12 12:39 PM

Originally Posted By: KazJaps
Considering there don't seem to be as many mutations/modifiers in other poultry species as with chickens, I thought it would be interesting looking at other species day-old chick down MC1R E locus mutations (ie less worries as to whether other mutations modifying E locus alleles).


Heel low:

Turkeys have about nine colour sites, chickens (excluding the e-series, what 15 to 20 give or take the new fangled ones like dull black (mz), etc.?).

I will post here and in the following posts, photos of four of the heritage turkeys that we have that express Black MC1R E locus mutations.

Photos shown are of day old poults, older poults and then adults in females and males PLUS some feathers for examples since many will not know what some of these turkeys look like.

EYES: Many of the adult black based turkeys have blue rims in their brown eyes with varying widths in the blue. I have included photos of eye colour...so far, not positive on this, but a hunch is that black based turkeys have blue rimmed brown eyes (is there a correlation here, black = blue in eyesÉÉ) BUT I will keep watching to see if this is always true or just something I have noted commonly with some exceptions. For what it is worth, very pretty...looking into the depths of the windows into the souls of these wise regal birds...heritage turkey eyes! And I must state, very patient too...would you have sat so still with me FLASHING camera pic after camera pic. Tolerant, patient and beau pretty!




RUSTY BLACK
Rusty Black - (B/b"+, R"+"/r)

Rusty Black - Black based turkey with incredible diversity in feather expression. White, black, reds, creams and combinations of all these. Speckling on cream, on red, on black bases. Toms have copper metallic in their plumage.



Rusty Black poult - male day old.




Rusty Black poult getting older.




Rusty Black tom.




Rusty Black tom plumage.




Eye - Rusty Black tom.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm
Posted by: Canuck_Bock_RAT

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 12/22/12 12:40 PM

Heel low:

DILUTE RUSTY BLACK
Dilute Rusty Black - Rusty Black (B/b"+, R"+"/r) PLUS Narragansett (female ng/- & male ng/ng)

Dilute Rusty Black - Another "black" based turkey but add in a diluted quality that produces an even preditableness not found in the Rusty Blacks. Hens are a grey base with black markings. Toms have a metallic copper sheen.



Dilute Rusty Black poult.




Two Dilute Rusty Black turkey pullets.



Dilute Rusty Black turkey pullet body feathers.




Dilute Rusty Black tom.



Dilute Rusty Black tom feathers.




Eye - Dilute Rusty Black pullet.



Eye - Dilute Rusty Black tom.




Comparison of Rusty Black poult-older poult, (top) and Dilute Rusty Black poult (bottom).

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm
Posted by: Canuck_Bock_RAT

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 12/22/12 12:41 PM

Heel low:

JERSEY BUFF
Jersey Buff - (B/B, r/r)

Jersey Buffs - Jersey Buffs are a rich reddish-buff complimented with white in wings and tail feathers with a pretty buff ring. Used in the development of the Bourbon Reds, the colour pattern in both is the same. Jersey Buffs are red (r/r) on a black (B/B) background with white underfeathers (so makes for a cleaner carcass).




Jersey Buff poult.



Jersey Buff older poult.




Jersey Buff - two hens and one tom.




Some people do not know this, but both genders of turkeys will strut...it is a way to express dominance and this Jersey Buff hen is strutting her stuff.




Jersey Buff tom.





Eye - Jersey Buff hen.



Eye - Jersey Buff tom.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm
Posted by: Canuck_Bock_RAT

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 12/22/12 12:43 PM

Heel low:

LILAC
Lilac - (B/B, r/r, D/d"+")

Lilac - Striking rich lilac with barred red tail feathers, our Lilacs are red (r/r), black (B/B), and heterozygous for slate (D/d"+") with white underfeathers.





Lilac poult day old.




Lilac hens.



Another item people that don`t own turks may not know, some hens have beards...yes, the dark wiry like protrusions from their chest. Here is LoREDa, and her beard!



Lilac hen feathers, donation by LoREDa.




Lilac toms.





Eye - Lilac hen.




Eye - Lilac tom.

Hope this helps. :-D

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm
Posted by: Wieslaw

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 01/07/13 03:13 PM

Here is a picture from CJR

Posted by: CJR

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 01/08/13 03:45 PM

These are Cream (Citroen) Mille Fleur Dutch chicks. Most all my Millies carry (ig) and so produce both varieties for me. CJR
Thank you Wieslaw.....
Posted by: Wieslaw

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 01/12/13 02:17 PM

Here are pictures from CJR:





There is one chick from each hen. Cream Mille Fleur cock, Wheaten hen and Cream Light Brown hen-full sisters! Chick on left is out of the Wheaten hen, on right, out of CLB hen, full sister.
Posted by: Marvin

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/05/13 10:39 AM

can anybody confirm different e+ e alleles? so far I've seen the Red Jungle fowl and the Grey Jungle fowl, which also have a wildtype(chipmunk) chick down, but dont know if they are one and the same
Posted by: a3riverschick

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/12/13 02:21 PM

Hi,
Those of you experienced with eWh S/S Co/Co fowl.

I have 6 Light Sussex chicks in the brooder. They are about a week old. This strain can be feather sexed and this method says at 3 days old, they are all pullets. From a show strain, they are that lovely correct Light Sussex yellow. On several of the chicks, where the hackle will eventually be, the necks are a darker shade of gold. My question: Is this something I want to see or something to avoid. My birds do not have superhackles.
Thanks,
Karen in western PA, USA
Posted by: Henk69

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 04/13/13 03:01 AM

Show strain and feather sexed are not compatible in my book... wink

Anyone please discuss this last question in the following topic:
http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=109325&gonew=1#UNREAD

Posted by: Redcap

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 08/19/13 04:45 PM

Light and Dark Head Columbian Chicks

Variations in the Phaeomelanin Intensity of the Head and
Neck Feathers of Gold Columbian Chicks,Somes 1972
http://documents.kippenjungle.nl/#post9
Posted by: KazJaps

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 08/19/13 09:43 PM

Thanks Redcap. An interesting study.
Here's the abstract
Variations in the Phaeomelanin Intensity of the Head and Neck Feathers of Gold Columbian Chicks.
R. G. Somes Jr.
Poult. Sci. May 1973 vol. 52 no. 3 831-835

The study is about the segregation of an unusual chick down phenotype, from the crosses of Rhode Island Reds, New Hampshire Reds and Buff Orpingtons. This "light headed" day-old phenotype is unusual in that they appear wheaten based with 2 different tones of phaeomelanin, ie very pale buff heads & necks yet dark reddish back. Test breeding indicated possibly a polygenic trait (multiple genes involved).

-----------------------
Originally Posted By: Marvin
can anybody confirm different e+ e alleles? so far I've seen the Red Jungle fowl and the Grey Jungle fowl, which also have a wildtype(chipmunk) chick down, but dont know if they are one and the same


R. Okimoto has noted that MC1R (E locus) DNA testing results of the 4 jungle fowl species, has determined that 3 species share the same MC1R sequence: Red Jungle fowl, Grey Jungle fowl, Ceylon Jungle fowl, yet the Green Jungle fowl allele has some differences. But the Green Jungle fowl allele doesn't have any of the mutations noted in domestic chickens (ie don't have substitutions as found in E, ER-Leghorn, ER-Fayoumi, eWh or eb alleles).

But keep in mind - the phenotype of a chick down is not dependent on a single locus, but is the result of all pigment/pattern influencing genes in a genotype.
Posted by: SixHix

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 01/22/14 08:03 PM

I am working on a project with golden cuckoo marans and salmon marans. I will have some chicks from a hatch that are Er/e+ or Er/Er. Is there any clues in their chick down or adult feathering as to who the Er/e+ ones are? It will save me a lot of time if there is sone way to tell. Is the Er completely dominant?
Thanks!
Heather
Posted by: Henk69

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 01/23/14 10:31 AM

It is fully dominant in chick down, but visible in adult feathers (remnant peppering)
Posted by: SixHix

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 01/23/14 02:00 PM

thank you for the info, Henk69!
That makes my day.
Posted by: Appyjumpindaze

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 05/12/14 11:06 AM

Found a bunch more chick down pics here: http://www.edelras.nl/belgians/chickens.htm
Posted by: a3riverschick

Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes - 05/16/17 07:04 PM

Hi,
I need some help with chick down genetics. I need to know definitively the chick down colors for the following crosses. Sire for all crosses is Light Sussex being eWh/eWh Co/Co S/S.
Over a hen:

Eb Dark Brown Leghorn
e+ Light Brown Leghorn
Ancona
Rhode Island Red
White Leghorn
Thanks so much for your help!!
Looking to discern if any of the chick downs above can be mistaken for pure Light Sussex.
Karen