Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#102087 - 02/11/12 01:35 PM Is wormer you add to food a good idea?
JoeG Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 155
Loc: NY
I Got a bag of safeguard wormer that you add to the food, is it a good idea/product to use? It says it treats like 400 LBS of food.

Is it a good idea to worm chickens? they will be free range birds.

Can you eat the eggs while worming them and how often do you worm and how?
_________________________
2Ameraucana Roo's
2BarredRocks 2PartridgeRocks
2Black Australorp.2Black SexLinks
8Easter Egg,5Ameraucanas
2SLW,2GLW
1White Leghorn,1Spec Sussex
2Guinea Royal Purples
2Peacocks India Blue/Blk Shoulder,1JadeSpalding PeaHen
2Royal Palm Turkeys
2Rottweilers

Top
#102089 - 02/11/12 01:45 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: JoeG]
Foehn Offline
Administrator
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1968
Loc: New Zealand
Does the instructions tell you there needs to be a with holding period on eggs?

I worm my hens 2x a year as they free range. Free range hens do have the opportunity to eat lots of bugs, and some of those carry tapeworms as an intermediate host. I target autumn when the hens start to moult as they usually don't lay then, and again in the spring before they start laying. I use a wormer though that does have a with holding period

I can't help you with Safeguard however, I am not aware of that as a product in NZ.

Top
#102092 - 02/11/12 02:56 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Foehn]
Maria Ricardo Offline
Past Moderator
Coop Keeper

Registered: 03/26/05
Posts: 434
Loc: Hawaii
I've only wormed birds that have shown they needed it from a fecal sample. I used Safeguard (Fenbendazole) paste dewormer for horses to treat the gapeworms that some hens had. I used a pea sized gob in their beaks, repeated in ten days. It worked. I fed the eggs they produced to the dog during the treatment time just to be on the safe side.

I'd be worried with a feed additive that some chickens would eat too much, even though Safeguard is supposed to be hard to overdose with.

Top
#102107 - 02/12/12 01:20 AM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Maria Ricardo]
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8489
Loc: Montana
Wormers are poisons. I would NEVER give wormer to my birds unless they indicate they need it, and then, by fecal sample to indicate what kind of worms they have. I live where it is COLD, frozen ground for months, and this may control worms that could (not WOULD)otherwise be harmful to my birds. By checking weight and condition regularly, as they mature, you would have an indication that worms might be affecting their health. Not to worry, and not to worm UNLESS really needed. Store the Wormer, and it will be on hand IF NEEDED. Good luck, CJR

Top
#102114 - 02/12/12 05:58 AM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: CJR]
Redcap Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 954
Loc: Germany
The question ist, whether Safeguard is the right wormer for chickens? Flubendazole is no poison. That''s a real panacea and prevent against cancer
http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org/content/115/23/4824.abstract
_________________________

Top
#102117 - 02/12/12 06:15 AM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Redcap]
JoeG Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 155
Loc: NY
I was told by the feed store that Safe Guard is what they would use, And I see people do use it by google search.

If a Chicken has worms is it Unsafe for us to eat the eggs? Can it spread to my dog's?
_________________________
2Ameraucana Roo's
2BarredRocks 2PartridgeRocks
2Black Australorp.2Black SexLinks
8Easter Egg,5Ameraucanas
2SLW,2GLW
1White Leghorn,1Spec Sussex
2Guinea Royal Purples
2Peacocks India Blue/Blk Shoulder,1JadeSpalding PeaHen
2Royal Palm Turkeys
2Rottweilers

Top
#102216 - 02/16/12 12:28 AM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: JoeG]
Foehn Offline
Administrator
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1968
Loc: New Zealand
I wouldn't think bird worms would survive in a mammal, but then I'm not an expert on worms per sae, so I don't know for sure.
The only risk to you is if the wormer has a with holding period, not because you'll get worms from the eggs.

You are not totally clear as to what you mean by your statement.

With holding periods are often due to the fact that some of the ingredients in bird wormers may also be used in human wormers and they are wanting you to not eat the eggs because if there is residual amounts of the wormer passed through into the egg, the dose rate you would get will be tiny, but that might also lead to any human worms you may carry, becoming immune, so, should you need a wormer for yourself, it might not work.


For the same reason, antibiotics given to milking cows, mustn't enter the food chain via milk. There are hefty penalties here if they are found in a farm supply. Children drinking milk with residual antibiotics will develop an immunity, so many antibiotics will become useless to them in time of need.


Edited by Foehn (02/16/12 12:30 AM)

Top
#102225 - 02/16/12 05:12 AM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Foehn]
JoeG Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 155
Loc: NY
So with Safe Guard how long should I not eat the eggs? Can teh eggs be given to my dog's in that time?
_________________________
2Ameraucana Roo's
2BarredRocks 2PartridgeRocks
2Black Australorp.2Black SexLinks
8Easter Egg,5Ameraucanas
2SLW,2GLW
1White Leghorn,1Spec Sussex
2Guinea Royal Purples
2Peacocks India Blue/Blk Shoulder,1JadeSpalding PeaHen
2Royal Palm Turkeys
2Rottweilers

Top
#102242 - 02/16/12 10:07 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: JoeG]
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8489
Loc: Montana
There should be instructions with the product, but I would never feed anything to my chickens that was not needed. Feed store personel seldom have any experience with chickens--they SELL stuff, whether needed or not. And the salesman they purchase their products from SELL them stuff to SELL... And they only have to have strong backs to load stuff into your pickup. Perhaps if you wait until you have your chickens growing, you will learn from them what is needed and not be worried about possibilities. There are very good books that can be a reference, as you want to find out about caring for your birds if unusual things occur. Keeping your birds well fed, watered, dry bedding, comfortable roost, and safe from predators (dogs, even yours) will be a happy experience. Good luck, CJR

Top
#102574 - 03/01/12 08:24 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: CJR]
Uno Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 1280
Loc: Canada
DO you have horses? Save the Safeguard for them. I have never considered Safeguard as an all purpose wormer for my chickens, although if you have a specific problem that requires a targetted wormer, then Safeguard might be your wormer of choice.

If you feel you must worm your birds, there are other alternatives available to you. For example, piperazine. This has been around for a long time and is used in humans when they have worms so one could guess that you DO NOT have to throw away the eggs while your chickens are taking piperazine. I don't. As well, piperazine is pretty easy to use. You mix it in their water, leave the water out there all day and let them drink as much as they want, next morning, you toss that water and give them regular water. Easy as pie.

There are also pour-on wormers that people use. This wormer is applied to the skin of the bird. THese ARE NOT approved for use in chickens(mostly for cattle and other large livestock) but many people use them with great success because they treat internal and external parasites. Kill worms and lice at the same time!

Some people are uncomfortable using these as they feel there is a legal problem with it. In fact, off label use IS NOT illegal. It is a very common practice in both human and animal medicine and the idea that you are breaking the law is incorrect. If you are an egg farmer and sell your eggs to the public, you have tighter rules to work within. But if these are YOUR chickens and YOU eat the eggs, you are not breaking any laws. I have used these wormers, mostly for lice/mite control but the internal worm control was an added bonus. It does NOT go in their food, you apply it to the skin of each chicken.

I never used to worm meatbirds, but a few years back had several die days before slaughter (this is the worst time to lose them, when you've fed them for 10 weeks!) When we butchered the rest we found several with paper thin intestines that fell apart in our hands like wet tissue paper and they were LOADED with worms! I am willing to bet those that died, died from intestinal blow out, the worm load literally burst their innards and killed them. I was so GROSSED OUT that I started worming ALL my meatbirds half way through their life. Just to prevent that from ever happening again PLUS I do not want to eat birds that I know had guts full of worms. (full body shudder)

I got my worm/pest issues under control with the pour on wormer. I keep the body pests under control with a No PEst strip in the coop, and once a year, when I worm the meatbirds, I worm the laying flock too. So far, this has worked for me.

Top
#102575 - 03/01/12 08:46 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Uno]
Redcap Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 954
Loc: Germany
In Germany Piperazin isn't allowed for layer chicken.
_________________________

Top
#102577 - 03/01/12 09:00 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Redcap]
Foehn Offline
Administrator
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1968
Loc: New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Redcap
In Germany Piperazin isn't allowed for layer chicken.

That's interesting Redcap. Piperazin is the basis of a lot of human worm medicines in NZ, so I wonder if it's due to there being a risk that human worms will build up a resistance via eggs, through people not observing with-holding periods? Or is it more than that?

Top
#102591 - 03/02/12 03:49 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Foehn]
Redcap Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 954
Loc: Germany
You will find Piperazin up to 17 days in eggs and LD50 is at 4-6 g/kg. And as it is mutagenous and cancerogenous, it is no more used for humans today.
http://books.google.de/books?id=U0c68Fa4...zin&f=false
_________________________

Top
#102594 - 03/03/12 12:58 AM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Redcap]
Uno Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 1280
Loc: Canada
This must be a 'country' thing because here (in Canada), yes you can get it for use in humans.

As I understand it because piperazine was not specifically tested on egg laying birds, there is no clear information about withdrawl times. So most companies will swing towards being overly cautious. If they are unsure, they just tell you to toss the eggs, that way everyone is safe. Assuming there was a risk in the first place. In Canada, if there is any known risk with a product, it MUST be on the label and packaging. That is our law. If it does not say there is a withdrawl time, then there isn't one.

Besides..you have to put this in some perspective. Is there a worry that humans eating eggs from piperazined hens will develop a piperazine tolerance? Gee, how many times a year do we worm ourselves? Maybe some of us have never been wormed in our lifetime! The real, actual risk of eggs creating a piperazine resistance in humans is utterly minute. YOu put yourself at greater health risk by smoking one single cigaretter or eating one, greasy cheeseburger.

I like piperazine for ease of use (in the water) and the fact that it's been around forever and is a pretty known substance. My one criticism is that I don't think it treats as many internal parasites as some of the newer wormers. It does nothing to tapeworms. If you think you have a tapeworm problem that you need to address, then piperazine is NOT what you want.

There are different piperazines and I use piperazine dihydrochloride. This is available at the local feed store.

Top
#102608 - 03/03/12 06:56 AM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Uno]
JoeG Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 155
Loc: NY
What kind of worms are common in chickens? How do they get them?
_________________________
2Ameraucana Roo's
2BarredRocks 2PartridgeRocks
2Black Australorp.2Black SexLinks
8Easter Egg,5Ameraucanas
2SLW,2GLW
1White Leghorn,1Spec Sussex
2Guinea Royal Purples
2Peacocks India Blue/Blk Shoulder,1JadeSpalding PeaHen
2Royal Palm Turkeys
2Rottweilers

Top
#102612 - 03/03/12 05:27 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: JoeG]
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8489
Loc: Montana
Unless there is a problem of growth or condition (loss of weight, rough feathers, not molt) or you see worms in the dropping OR KNOW that your neighbor's free range birds show signs of worms--well just forget about worming. I have wormed my birds several times in 30+ year. (Never saw worms in the droppings following treatment). It was probably a waste of money for the wormer--and dumping of eggs. When I raised fryers/roasters, no sign of worm problem, as Uno experienced! (Different climate, different management.) All chickens likely carry some round worms)if they are allowed outside on ground. They can get themn from ingesting insects, earthworms, NOT TO WORRY. If you live in an area where ground freezes deeply, in winter, likely worms will not be a problem. HOWEVER, if you live in warmer climates, you can be assured your birds will have worms that may not cause any problems at all--or, if they DO, TREAT THEM at 3-6-mos. intervals, if this is what your local poultry people find is effective. Don't let the feed store sell you products that you must store safely, may never use, effectiveness will expire,--you can obtain them IF you need them.

Where do they come from? Roundworms are most common, and no one source can be named. Wild bird droppings? Maybe?, maybe not. This would include Pheasants, Wild Turkeys, Waterfowl, although each kind of worm may have species-specific hosts that will never be more than a temporary threat to your chickens, so you will likely not be able to name a source of chicken-fowl worms. Wild pigeons droppings are one that can be a source. Of course the greatest source is from a chicken that carries worms. The life cycle includes reinfection by unclean ground/coops. This is one reason that Droppings trays, that the birds cannot get into, can reduce ingesting the eggs of any that are deposited there!! Eye worms, Gapeworms that sound so awful are not common. Again, NOT TO Worry, good management and observation of your bird's condition can give you an idea of whether to have the droppings, checked by a Vet--or if you have done a little microbiology, have a microscope, could check yourself. It is not an emergency treatment, so I would not have the Piperazine on hand to get old and usesless. Just knowing about the possibility is enough for now.......Good luck, CJR


Edited by CJR (03/03/12 05:32 PM)

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Admin @ The Coop, Moderator2