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#102575 - 03/01/12 08:46 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Uno]
Redcap Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 476
Loc: Germany
In Germany Piperazin isn't allowed for layer chicken.
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#102577 - 03/01/12 09:00 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Redcap]
Foehn Offline
Administrator
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1928
Loc: New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Redcap
In Germany Piperazin isn't allowed for layer chicken.

That's interesting Redcap. Piperazin is the basis of a lot of human worm medicines in NZ, so I wonder if it's due to there being a risk that human worms will build up a resistance via eggs, through people not observing with-holding periods? Or is it more than that?

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#102591 - 03/02/12 03:49 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Foehn]
Redcap Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 476
Loc: Germany
You will find Piperazin up to 17 days in eggs and LD50 is at 4-6 g/kg. And as it is mutagenous and cancerogenous, it is no more used for humans today.
http://books.google.de/books?id=U0c68Fa4...zin&f=false
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#102594 - 03/03/12 12:58 AM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Redcap]
Uno Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 1257
Loc: Canada
This must be a 'country' thing because here (in Canada), yes you can get it for use in humans.

As I understand it because piperazine was not specifically tested on egg laying birds, there is no clear information about withdrawl times. So most companies will swing towards being overly cautious. If they are unsure, they just tell you to toss the eggs, that way everyone is safe. Assuming there was a risk in the first place. In Canada, if there is any known risk with a product, it MUST be on the label and packaging. That is our law. If it does not say there is a withdrawl time, then there isn't one.

Besides..you have to put this in some perspective. Is there a worry that humans eating eggs from piperazined hens will develop a piperazine tolerance? Gee, how many times a year do we worm ourselves? Maybe some of us have never been wormed in our lifetime! The real, actual risk of eggs creating a piperazine resistance in humans is utterly minute. YOu put yourself at greater health risk by smoking one single cigaretter or eating one, greasy cheeseburger.

I like piperazine for ease of use (in the water) and the fact that it's been around forever and is a pretty known substance. My one criticism is that I don't think it treats as many internal parasites as some of the newer wormers. It does nothing to tapeworms. If you think you have a tapeworm problem that you need to address, then piperazine is NOT what you want.

There are different piperazines and I use piperazine dihydrochloride. This is available at the local feed store.

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#102608 - 03/03/12 06:56 AM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: Uno]
JoeG Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 155
Loc: NY
What kind of worms are common in chickens? How do they get them?
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#102612 - 03/03/12 05:27 PM Re: Is wormer you add to food a good idea? [Re: JoeG]
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8442
Loc: Montana
Unless there is a problem of growth or condition (loss of weight, rough feathers, not molt) or you see worms in the dropping OR KNOW that your neighbor's free range birds show signs of worms--well just forget about worming. I have wormed my birds several times in 30+ year. (Never saw worms in the droppings following treatment). It was probably a waste of money for the wormer--and dumping of eggs. When I raised fryers/roasters, no sign of worm problem, as Uno experienced! (Different climate, different management.) All chickens likely carry some round worms)if they are allowed outside on ground. They can get themn from ingesting insects, earthworms, NOT TO WORRY. If you live in an area where ground freezes deeply, in winter, likely worms will not be a problem. HOWEVER, if you live in warmer climates, you can be assured your birds will have worms that may not cause any problems at all--or, if they DO, TREAT THEM at 3-6-mos. intervals, if this is what your local poultry people find is effective. Don't let the feed store sell you products that you must store safely, may never use, effectiveness will expire,--you can obtain them IF you need them.

Where do they come from? Roundworms are most common, and no one source can be named. Wild bird droppings? Maybe?, maybe not. This would include Pheasants, Wild Turkeys, Waterfowl, although each kind of worm may have species-specific hosts that will never be more than a temporary threat to your chickens, so you will likely not be able to name a source of chicken-fowl worms. Wild pigeons droppings are one that can be a source. Of course the greatest source is from a chicken that carries worms. The life cycle includes reinfection by unclean ground/coops. This is one reason that Droppings trays, that the birds cannot get into, can reduce ingesting the eggs of any that are deposited there!! Eye worms, Gapeworms that sound so awful are not common. Again, NOT TO Worry, good management and observation of your bird's condition can give you an idea of whether to have the droppings, checked by a Vet--or if you have done a little microbiology, have a microscope, could check yourself. It is not an emergency treatment, so I would not have the Piperazine on hand to get old and usesless. Just knowing about the possibility is enough for now.......Good luck, CJR


Edited by CJR (03/03/12 05:32 PM)

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