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#102860 - 03/15/12 01:05 PM Crossing red orpington
stephan Offline
Bantam

Registered: 04/18/11
Posts: 72
Loc: France/Dordogne South-West
I breed red orpington, the color we look for is the one of the Rhode island, and i assume that the first crossing to get red orpington were made with Rhode island, so there are on recessive wheaten if i'm not wrong.
I would like to get a better type,increase size and volume. And i was thinking what would to best crossing to do with other orpington color.
I have good massive black orps, would it be a good crossing ??
Or i can do also with buff orpington but there is the di gene wich could be a problem ???


Edited by stephan (03/15/12 09:52 PM)

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#102861 - 03/15/12 01:24 PM Re: Crossing red orpington [Re: stephan]
Wieslaw Online   content
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3378
Loc: Denmark
Whatever you cross, it can potentially cause 'problems'. If you use blacks , you can pick up recessive melanizers and possibly even Pg. Buffs have only dominant genes, which are easier to remove, because you can see them. So in my opinion it is best with one outcross to buff, and never coming to buff again, selecting for darker and darker birds. But perhaps others have different opinions?

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#102865 - 03/15/12 05:57 PM Re: Crossing red orpington [Re: Wieslaw]
Sigi Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1150
Loc: Holland
I never advice to cross reds to buffs since you will never get rid of a golden shine in hackle, roosters will show always darker red shoulders for at least 4 or 5 generations. There has been tried to use a very dark orange buff rooster on red hens (silkie bantams)by lack of a red rooster and it was horror.
I would choose for the black one and try to get all columbian genes pure. You will see considerable spangling (black spangles at the end of the feather tips as is seen already in red Orps), and the hens will show a lot of black pencilling a long time. I think its more easy to get the columbian genes pure and working than breeding out all kinds of diluters from a buff cross.
When you add black, you must have to change the e-allele from eb to eWh. So pay attention to chickdown after F2, because in F2 they will segregate.
Just my dime...


Edited by Sigi (03/15/12 05:58 PM)
Edit Reason: typos...

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#102869 - 03/15/12 09:57 PM Re: Crossing red orpington [Re: Sigi]
stephan Offline
Bantam

Registered: 04/18/11
Posts: 72
Loc: France/Dordogne South-West
Thanks for these answers.

Sigi, why from eb to eWh, i don't understand, black is on E, normally !


Edited by stephan (03/15/12 10:05 PM)

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#102873 - 03/16/12 12:13 AM Re: Crossing red orpington [Re: stephan]
Henk69 Online   content
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 2970
Loc: Netherlands
I am with Wieslaw. Also note that Sigi talks silky... wink
Added bonus for us would be to see those diluters segregating.

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#102879 - 03/16/12 05:39 AM Re: Crossing red orpington [Re: Henk69]
Simon V. Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 192
Loc: Australia
I did a buff orpington x RIR cross to try and develop red oringtons here in Australia and got this:

[img]http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=969&u=13335462[/img]


The dark shoulders are clear... but then this was also a problem we often have with the buff orps too.


Edited by Henk69 (03/16/12 05:42 AM)

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#102892 - 03/16/12 11:03 AM Re: Crossing red orpington [Re: Simon V.]
Sigi Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1150
Loc: Holland
Is Silkie no chicken?
The bantam reds were based both on eb (grey under fluff) and wheaten (light under fluff), the hets were the best since under fluf is visible in silkies, this is hidden in smooths.

Don't bother about Pg, with enough columbians (of which Mh is a strong one as well) you get rid of black soon (4 generations, to the extremities).
Done this to create a black tailed red Japanese bantam as well... understand how Db works.
Wheaten german (reddish)colour Jap females x a black tailed red Serama rooster of unknown origine probably eWh/eb. Will look for the photos of these chicks in archive...


Edited by Sigi (03/16/12 11:05 AM)

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#102896 - 03/16/12 11:57 AM Re: Crossing red orpington [Re: Sigi]
SilverSilkie Online   content
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1026
Loc: Belgium
Originally Posted By: Sigi
Is Silkie no chicken?


No, Silkies are dinosaurs as you know ;-)

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#102910 - 03/17/12 01:40 AM Re: Crossing red orpington [Re: SilverSilkie]
Henk69 Online   content
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 2970
Loc: Netherlands
Silky is a complicated chicken.

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#102954 - 03/19/12 11:20 AM Re: Crossing red orpington [Re: Henk69]
stephan Offline
Bantam

Registered: 04/18/11
Posts: 72
Loc: France/Dordogne South-West
Thanks Sigi

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