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#103456 - 04/21/12 07:57 AM Check Air Cells in Shipped Eggs Before Incubation?
Tajsj Offline
Bantam

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Alabama
First time incubating shipped eggs. Have been reading about "loose air cells", "bubbles" and all manner of concerns I've never thought about before. For the record..I have incubated 4-500 eggs already this year but they have been my own eggs. I just save them up for a week and put them in the incubator. I use the dry incubation method and get about a 90% hatch using 2 redwood style incubators. No auto turners, eggs lay flat.

My very expensive shipped eggs have been setting, large end up, for around 48 hours. I think I really need to get them into the incubator today. When I candle I can't see any air sac..loose or otherwise. I've really never worried about that before so I may be missing something. I've also read that upright incubation is in order for shipped eggs. Never tried that before either. Any advice would be appreciated. I have 24 Orp. eggs and they were only shipped approx. 300 miles. But I've got to get them going today.
_________________________
T. W.

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#103457 - 04/21/12 08:49 AM Re: Check Air Cells in Shipped Eggs Before Incubation? [Re: Tajsj]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3824
Loc: Denmark
Never heard about loose air cells. Some hens lay naturally eggs with air chambers on the side instead of on the top, but I honestly cannot imagine how air chambers can be loose. And even if they were, what could you possibly do about it? The only thing I do (apart from letting them lie still for 24 hours) is to wash them with antiviral agent. I had various results from shipped eggs, from 21 out of 36, down to 14 out of 48(chicks dying in the last week of incubation). No egg in nature is hatched standing up on the sharp end.

PS. When I drove myself in the car throughout the half of Denmark, there was no difference in hatching numbers from my own eggs. So postal workers probably play football with the parcels. Additionally, you never know what is the real percentage of fertilized eggs with the person who sends them.

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#103460 - 04/21/12 03:33 PM Re: Check Air Cells in Shipped Eggs Before Incubation? [Re: Wieslaw]
nzchicke Offline
Chicken

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 75
Loc: South Island NZ
I have had eggs that have been posted very roughly, I found they were easy to spot the 'travelling air sac', often you could feel the worst ones too when you moved the egg. Sorry I do not have advice on it, just some of mine I expected not to make it still did. the more careful the better I say.

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#103468 - 04/22/12 03:47 PM Re: Check Air Cells in Shipped Eggs Before Incubation? [Re: nzchicke]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3824
Loc: Denmark
I have been shaking a freshly laid egg for many minutes and found it impossible to make the air sack travelling. I have borrowed a picture of an egg from this site:

http://urbanext.illinois.edu/eggs/res16-egg.html



As you can see the air sack is very small when fresh and is placed between 2 very strong membranes, which are strong enough to go through a hens vent without being damaged. They are the last thing that can be damaged in an egg. To make the air sack travel it would be necessary to separate the two membranes, which is impossible to do without damaging the egg itself. The things that can be damage first are the two chalazas that keep the yolk centrally in the thick albumen and the next problem would be the damage to the yolk itself. The air sack is of the least concern in this game.It will stay where it is. When you use a level to check if something is built correctly , do you feel the air buble moving ? You don't. You've probably heard somebody confused a rotten egg with a fresh egg.


Edited by Wieslaw (04/22/12 03:53 PM)

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#103472 - 04/23/12 08:53 PM Re: Check Air Cells in Shipped Eggs Before Incubation? [Re: Wieslaw]
Tajsj Offline
Bantam

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Alabama
I agree with you Wieslaw. I had never heard of it either. What started my investigation was a statement made to me by the seller of these expensive eggs (a most reputable breeder). I was asking him if I needed to do anything special with the shipped eggs upon receipt. He stated that I just needed to let them settle, big end up, for 24 hours before incubating...because "if you were to candle these eggs as soon as they arrive those air sacs could be all over the place"...his words, not mine. I did candle them and saw nothing unusual. Now, the 24 hour "settling period" was something I had heard before and it makes perfect sense (mostly for temp. acclimation) but the mystical traveling air sac/cell was a new one to me and I haven't seen one yet. Maybe I misunderstood what he was talking about. Though other sites have much to say on the subject...at least enough to make you think it is a common occurrence with shipped eggs. Well I suppose, technically speaking, the air sacs did "travel"...about 350 miles.
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T. W.

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#103478 - 04/24/12 01:57 AM Re: Check Air Cells in Shipped Eggs Before Incubation? [Re: Tajsj]
Caladenia Offline
Chicken

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 146
Loc: Australia
i have seen ruptured air sacs on candling from shipped eggs. it's quite noticeable, so if you can't see it you mustn't have it. as well as rough handling other facctors such as temperature (higher) and humidity play into the situation.

its much worse if the eggs have travelled by air, as the lack of stabilised air pressure in the aircraft hold will allow rupturing of the membrane.

were your shipped eggs subjected to air travel? simple physics of expanding air explains how the membranes can be ruptured/damaged.

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#103479 - 04/24/12 06:15 AM Re: Check Air Cells in Shipped Eggs Before Incubation? [Re: Caladenia]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3824
Loc: Denmark
My shipped eggs were subjected to air travel (twice). No ruptured air sacs. Perhaps pilots in Australia fly higher than here. In case of high altitudes the air in the air sack would not expand, au contraire. If anything, it should be sucked out of the eggs. Can you(or anybody else) make a picture of ruptured air sack ?

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#103480 - 04/24/12 06:18 AM Re: Check Air Cells in Shipped Eggs Before Incubation? [Re: Caladenia]
Tajsj Offline
Bantam

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Alabama
Caladenia-Not sure if they traveled by air. I would think they did not. Did you attempt to incubate the eggs with ruptured air sacs? If so, what results?
Can anyone provide a picture of candled egg with ruptured/out of location/bubbled airsac? Or at least a link to picture?
_________________________
T. W.

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#103492 - 04/25/12 12:30 AM Re: Check Air Cells in Shipped Eggs Before Incubation? [Re: Tajsj]
Caladenia Offline
Chicken

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 146
Loc: Australia
i did attempt to incubate the eggs with the ruptured sacs, they had travelled a long way and it was worth a go, but to no avail.

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#103493 - 04/25/12 12:38 AM Re: Check Air Cells in Shipped Eggs Before Incubation? [Re: Caladenia]
Caladenia Offline
Chicken

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 146
Loc: Australia
found this image on backyard chickens.



http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/471229/can-someone-show-me-a-detached-or-ruptured-air-sac

in this case the poster said the egg was developing at that stage.

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