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#104415 - 06/27/12 05:22 AM E^R ?
M. J. Conley Offline
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Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 181
Loc: Australia

Since this cockerel's (hom Id hom w) shanks are yellow does this indicate the bird is het ER rather than het E?

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#104417 - 06/27/12 06:18 AM Re: E^R ? [Re: M. J. Conley]
KazJaps Offline
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Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2148
Loc: Australia
The one on the left is a full brother too, ie Id/Id W+/w?

I've noticed in my Aust. Pit Games E or ER based, segregating W+/w or w/w that the epidermal pigment seems less on the yellows than on the whites (particularly when they are young). I think it's just that the contrast is more obvious with the yellows.

Don't know about het ER or het E with epidermal pigment, but a guess (only) would be that the ER would be lighter. But another consideration with your project is that they might be picking up from the Leghorn side whatever the modifiers are that give clean yellow legs when ER based (eg ER yellow-legged Black Pekins, Japs, Leghorns, etc). This trait is partially sex-influenced too (males tend to have cleaner yellow legs than females). And who knows if these modifiers may have a similar effect on E/e+ ?

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#104418 - 06/27/12 06:37 AM Re: E^R ? [Re: KazJaps]
Wieslaw Online   content
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Registered: 09/18/09
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Originally Posted By: Kazjaps
And who knows if these modifiers may have a similar effect on E/e+ ?


I would ask from another angle: who was it who 'decided' that E birds cannot have yellow legs to start with? and on what basis? I recall at some point Blackdotte mentioned something in that style, that it was 'almost impossible'?(but I may remember wrongly). But has anybody actually published something officialy about it? Initially I took it as 'rather reliable' way to tell ER and E apart, but my doubts are growing bigger, as it came into conflict with other things.

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#104432 - 06/28/12 06:32 AM Re: E^R ? [Re: Wieslaw]
Wieslaw Online   content
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I do not know if there is 'something' in all yellow legged Leghorns, but in my experience there must be something in yellow legged black Leghorns from England. I have a black hen with very yellow legs. When crossed to 'ordinary browns', her daughters' legs go dusky(as if it was recessive). Can anybody else confirm this observation?

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#104434 - 06/28/12 09:05 AM Re: E^R ? [Re: Wieslaw]
Bushman Offline
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Registered: 07/25/07
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Loc: Wisconsin
Have you considered mating the black hen with one of her cockerel offspring from the cross with brown? That should confirm it, but what is in play? Could it be as simple as one copy of e+ causing the duskiness if two copies of eb is necessary for the yellow shanks in a black female?
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#104438 - 06/28/12 04:44 PM Re: E^R ? [Re: Wieslaw]
KazJaps Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2148
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Wieslaw
I do not know if there is 'something' in all yellow legged Leghorns, but in my experience there must be something in yellow legged black Leghorns from England. I have a black hen with very yellow legs. When crossed to 'ordinary browns', her daughters' legs go dusky(as if it was recessive). Can anybody else confirm this observation?


Yes, had similar results crossing yellow-legged black Jap roo (Id/Id) (ER/ER or E?) to Jubilee Indian Game bantam hen (wheaten, I/i+, Id/-). But the daughters weren't dusky, they were very dark legged (including I/i+ het. Dominant Whites). The sons were darkish/dusky when juveniles & ended up clean yellow-legged.

Fred Jeffrey (Bantam Breeding & Genetics) noted similar with Cote's study, with a cross between a yellow-legged Blue Frizzle Cochin (E/E ml+/ml+ co+/co+ Id w/w, * didn't distinguish between E or ER in this study) roo x Brown Leghorn hen (e+/e+ Id/-) where offspring had 'willow' legs.

*It's probably a sex-influenced trait, not sex-linked.

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#104447 - 06/29/12 05:07 PM Re: E^R ? [Re: KazJaps]
Poultch Offline
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Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Zealand
Originally Posted By: KazJaps
... And who knows if these modifiers may have a similar effect on E/e+ ?


this is a very good point, Mark you mentioned that some of the leghorns you used were very pale in the hackle, do I remember this correctly?

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#104448 - 06/29/12 06:00 PM Re: E^R ? [Re: KazJaps]
M. J. Conley Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 181
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: KazJaps
The one on the left is a full brother too, ie Id/Id W+/w? ..
I apologise KazJaps, yes they are from the same batch, definitely Id/Id W+/w, mark

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#104449 - 06/29/12 06:09 PM Re: E^R ? [Re: Poultch]
M. J. Conley Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 181
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Poultch
..... Mark you mentioned that some of the leghorns you used were very pale in the hackle, do I remember this correctly?

Goodaye Poultch, did you mean the P male who was used with the backcross's also, this one, mark

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#104461 - 06/30/12 07:33 PM Re: E^R ? [Re: M. J. Conley]
Poultch Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Zealand
thanks Mark.
definately interesting.

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