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#105079 - 08/02/12 05:44 PM Re: Some Winning Dutch in the UK [Re: Bushman]
Rog Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 775
Loc: Missouri
Ok Let me see if I have this right. You don`t have Dutch and have never had Dutch ? But have read the standard. Well good for you. Maybe you need to raise some Dutch and help us coop blind breeders out. Then you might find out that the standard needs some tweeking. Not much but some minor corrections. And some of the other pic`s of Dutch were to help show the differences in the Dutch breed in the US. Like the post " Not so good Dutch " Anyway do try raising some Dutch. Bet you would enjoy them. Oh I do like your European Red Deer. If I had better fences wouldn`t mind having a few.


Edited by Rog (08/03/12 04:15 PM)
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#105080 - 08/02/12 06:26 PM Re: Some Winning Dutch in the UK [Re: Rog]
Bushman Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 944
Loc: Wisconsin
Rog, they would never survive in my set up here. I don't insulate, and I don't heat, and it gets pretty darn cold in my coop. Single combs don't make it. That's why I breed Chanteclers and Ameraucanas. But I have admired Dutch for a long time and have studied them. I compare what I see to the written standard, not opinions that vary from person to person.
When you succeed in changing the standard, I expect my evaluations will change accordingly.
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#105099 - 08/03/12 01:32 PM Re: Some Winning Dutch in the UK [Re: Bushman]
SBH Offline
New Egg

Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Nebraska
I for one enjoy seeing the pictures that Rog post here. I own a standard and have read it many times, these photos are a great visual to what is in the standard. Granted these birds do not conform to our standard as it is printed now but many of the things are the same. I find the photos a good way to measure my current birds with where I want to go with my own breeding program.
Some of these birds may not be showing in the photos but you can tell the quality of the birds. You can see positive things in each photo. These birds would not place well at the European shows if they were average.
I also like seeing the varieties we do not currently have in the U.S.
I also think the Dutch are more cold hardy than some people give them credit for. I have kept extra males in an unisulated building with a 100 watt light bulb hanging over the roost and had only minimal freezing of the combs. During the coldest of times I do put a water heater out so the water is kept around 50-60 degrees.

Stewart

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#105100 - 08/03/12 03:18 PM Re: Some Winning Dutch in the UK [Re: SBH]
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8432
Loc: Montana
Our Standard needs CORRECTION, not "changing". Before the Society was formed, and approved by ABA, we who bred Dutth in the US were given the translated Standard from the Netherlands. I have bred to this Standard for over 25 years. 5 persons, rewrote the Standards to match the crossbred birds (OEGB, White Leghorn Bantams, Black Rosecomb Bantams, Phoenix, maybe others) that were used to create new varieties never imnported. If the present Standard described DUTCH, our birds would not look like any other breed of Bantam. Now, many consider them "poor cousins" of OEGB. However, some judges DO know the difference, and we do produce TOP DUTCH. Several exhibitors have produced BEST IN SHOW --BEST BANTAM in SHOW that are true DUTCH that would place well in other countries, including large Shows in Holland. Society members at a Columbus Show, with large Dutch entry, voted to urge our Society Officers to apply for the CORRECTIONS that will bring our Dutch up to the CORRECT Standard language. The Society passed, by vote of the membership, a Constitutional "change of name" of the Society to remove AMERICAN from the Society name, to help the corrections application. We are not breeders of "American" Dutch", but DUTCH, there is just one DUTCH BANTAM--and we have them, but do not always win with them, but they are the birds with extra Glamour that attract people to the breed! So far our officers have not completed the application, but WILL, in time! Other breeds have effectivley modified their Standarda, just by exhibiting most all of their (even not conforming to written wording) birds of a uniform TYPE--and judges see nothing else,so those birds WIN and become a "newer" breeding goal. We can, too! CJR

(Shouldn't the BREED CLUB know what is correct? ABA/APA will have more exhibits at the shows they approive, IF the BREED is given the right to approve their own Standarsd language, and not good people who raise other breeds?)

















cH


Edited by CJR (08/03/12 03:20 PM)

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#105103 - 08/03/12 09:30 PM Re: Some Winning Dutch in the UK [Re: CJR]
Bushman Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 944
Loc: Wisconsin
So if there is a general concensus as to the "corrections" that need to be made, what is holding things up? Why isn't it being done? Or do we have differing opinions? Poultry judges are supposed to judge according to what the written Standards say, not how they or someone else feels the way it should be.
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#105106 - 08/04/12 08:37 AM Re: Some Winning Dutch in the UK [Re: Bushman]
Rog Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 775
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: Bushman
Poultry judges are supposed to judge according to what the written Standards say, not how they or someone else feels the way it should be.
Nice idea but do not each Judge interpret the standard the way they think it reads ? And do all Judges read it and interpert it the same ? I don`t think so. If they did at a double judged show both Judges would have all the birds placed exactly the same. Ever see that happen ? Thats just human nature. The more people that breed and show the Holland type Dutch the better off the Dutch breed will be. Even if the standard has not had the corrections made " YET ". There are several breeders that are breeding the Holland type Dutch. They are out there and if a person does some research you can find them. I started with some OEGB wannabe Dutch several years ago. They were gone in a short time. Once a person has some real good Holland type Dutch it is very easy to see the difference. Still think you need to try the Dutch.
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#105108 - 08/04/12 12:21 PM Re: Some Winning Dutch in the UK [Re: Rog]
Bushman Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 944
Loc: Wisconsin
I'm just curious as to what are the major corrections that need to be made to the current USA Standards?
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Pilgrim in a foreign land and true believer.
1 John 5:11-12

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#105150 - 08/09/12 07:16 AM Re: Some Winning Dutch in the UK [Re: Bushman]
Rog Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 775
Loc: Missouri
Best in Show Ashover UK. Bred , owned and shown by Jane Eardley. Same pullet as shown above at Bakewell show.
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#105151 - 08/09/12 08:38 AM Re: Some Winning Dutch in the UK [Re: Bushman]
Bushman Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 944
Loc: Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Bushman
I'm just curious as to what are the major corrections that need to be made to the current USA Standards?


Anybody???
_________________________
Pilgrim in a foreign land and true believer.
1 John 5:11-12

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#105156 - 08/09/12 04:06 PM Re: Some Winning Dutch in the UK [Re: Bushman]
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8432
Loc: Montana
Bushman, Sent you a PM 8/5. Can forward the comparison standard language to you, if I have your email address--that had been on the Society Website for nearly 2 years--expect the new site to be up at any time?--new Webmaster...CJR

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