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#106278 - 10/22/12 06:06 PM The Isolating the Dilute gene thread
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Nicaragua
ok guys this is the report on the state on my breeding programe... isolating dominant Dilute(Di) from self buff cochin

here mother


Father was a Red enhanced Birchen(based on gold s+) Game rooster.


I selected a none restricted ER rooster, this rooster seemed to carry Di(very Diluted Top and saddle) but its shoulder was not as diluted, seems heterozygous Dilute cant inhibit autosomal red

F1 ER/eWh Di/di+ blue rooster(blue coming from cochin mother)


I crossed this rooster back to self Buff and obtain more blue ER BC1 birds..


at this stage I belive the rooster is Homo for Di(Di/Di) his shoulders are diluted more than dad, but it stills has autosomal red



BC1 ER Rooster x BC1 ER hen

produced the following cockerel




so I am at this stage, what to do from here? Im thinking of obtaining a few wildtype hens and mate him to them to see whats he is trully carriying under the dominant ER allele

Im thinking that if its not Dilute, it may be a blue like gene (dominant) that dilutes both pheomelanin and eumelanin at the same time but much stronger at doing it than normal blue, blue on wildtype dont seem to dilute ground color as much as on ER so will see....

any input?


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#106287 - 10/23/12 12:58 AM Re: The Isolating the Dilute gene thread [Re: Marvin]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Nicaragua
Man, Htul stole the show... cry

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#106291 - 10/23/12 02:37 AM Re: The Isolating the Dilute gene thread [Re: Marvin]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2914
Loc: Australia
Thank you for outlining your project so well (good pics).

If you still have that F1 rooster, I think it would be great to pair him to a e+/e+ wild-type hen, and break down the genotype further. See if you can segregate out some of those modifiers.

Of course, a e+/e+ wild-type roo x to original buff hen would be best, but I realise you have limited stock & resources to work with.

You see, it might be the case that the original ER roo had hypostatic/hidden mutations (eg, het. for Ml/ml+, Co, Pg, Cote's partial eumelanin restrictors, etc). So this might mess things up a bit if trying to work out the genotype of the original buff hen. But your main objective I see is to isolate Di, & this may still be achievable by using a F1 (or similar bird with possible Di) & cross to wild-type.

Then you can try to isolate the various mutations on e+/e+ and see if a resemblance to mutations noted by Brumbaugh & Hollander (eg Di, Mh, etc) & Smyth et al. Db, Co etc traits. It might be hard to tell Di from Db in e+ chick down, but different adult plumage & het. traits...

Good Luck smile

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#106292 - 10/23/12 02:53 AM Re: The Isolating the Dilute gene thread [Re: KazJaps]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Nicaragua
Originally Posted By: KazJaps
Thank you for outlining your project so well (good pics).

If you still have that F1 rooster, I think it would be great to pair him to a e+/e+ wild-type hen, and break down the genotype further. See if you can segregate out some of those modifiers.

Of course, a e+/e+ wild-type roo x to original buff hen would be best, but I realise you have limited stock & resources to work with.

You see, it might be the case that the original ER roo had hypostatic/hidden mutations (eg, het. for Ml/ml+, Co, Pg, Cote's partial eumelanin restrictors, etc). So this might mess things up a bit if trying to work out the genotype of the original buff hen. But your main objective I see is to isolate Di, & this may still be achievable by using a F1 (or similar bird with possible Di) & cross to wild-type.

Then you can try to isolate the various mutations on e+/e+ and see if a resemblance to mutations noted by Brumbaugh & Hollander (eg Di, Mh, etc) & Smyth et al. Db, Co etc traits. It might be hard to tell Di from Db in e+ chick down, but different adult plumage & het. traits...

Good Luck smile
bummer I dont have the F1 roo anylonger and the BC1 is very sick, I was hoping I could still extract Di from my young cockerel(he is the result from BC1xBC1), Im not interested on any other gene but Di..


Edited by Marvin (10/23/12 02:55 AM)

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#106296 - 10/23/12 07:44 AM Re: The Isolating the Dilute gene thread [Re: Marvin]
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3249
Loc: Netherlands
I don't see any pheomelanin on the young cockerel.

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#106298 - 10/23/12 09:35 AM Re: The Isolating the Dilute gene thread [Re: Henk69]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
Marvin are "self Buff" not be supposed to have "Mh" ? "eWh/eWh s+/s+*s+/- Co/Co Db/Db Mh/Mh Di/Di"

I ask this because : "this rooster seemed to carry Di(very Diluted Top and saddle) but its shoulder was not as diluted, seems heterozygous Dilute cant inhibit autosomal red, F1 ER/eWh Di/di+ blue rooster(blue coming from cochin mother)"
so should he not have to be "ER/eWh s+/s+ Co/co+ Db/db+ Mh/mh+ Di/di+ Bl/bl+" ?

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#106304 - 10/23/12 03:17 PM Re: The Isolating the Dilute gene thread [Re: Henk69]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Nicaragua
Originally Posted By: Henk69
I don't see any pheomelanin on the young cockerel.
oh he will show it with time

this is how his dad looked around his age.



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#106305 - 10/23/12 03:19 PM Re: The Isolating the Dilute gene thread [Re: SilverSilkie]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Nicaragua
Originally Posted By: SilverSilkie
Marvin are "self Buff" not be supposed to have "Mh" ? "eWh/eWh s+/s+*s+/- Co/Co Db/Db Mh/Mh Di/Di"
thats correct, I just mentioning how his dad was also red enhanced(mahogany or autosomal red or both)

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#106306 - 10/23/12 07:03 PM Re: The Isolating the Dilute gene thread [Re: Marvin]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Nicaragua
if it turns out that whats diluting my Buff cochin is a new type of blue, one that works like normal blue works on ER but this one works on e+ or eWh, Ill go bananas, I actually like the Idea, I will be using the young cockerel because he has things my BC1 lacks, and thats he is Heterozygous for naked neck which means I will be able to get normal hackle(as see the gold shade), this young cockerel has no shank feathering and has a more Game look to him(at least closer to game than my BC1 roo) this cockerel is Bc1xBc1, Ill keep him and my buff cochin hen, she is about 5 years old and still going strong, she is broody now with BC2 eggs... Ill see what comes out of that hatch

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#106309 - 10/24/12 06:08 AM Re: The Isolating the Dilute gene thread [Re: Marvin]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
Originally Posted By: Marvin
Originally Posted By: Henk69
I don't see any pheomelanin on the young cockerel.
oh he will show it with time

this is how his dad looked around his age.




Some of your blue roosters have the darker blue tailfeathers others have very light (almost white) tailfeathers some even have black and light tailfeathers as would be expected for Splash, is this due Bl/bl+ is an intermediar coloration or you suspect something else is the cause (Is?) ?


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