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#108934 - 03/16/13 10:56 PM Aust. Pit Game spotty mutation
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2864
Loc: Australia
I've been test breeding the spotty mutation (from Australian Pit Games). I'll just give the spotty mutation the nomenclature "Sp" for the time being (it's dominant).

First generation parents:
Blue Spotty Australian Pit Game:
(E/E or ER, Bl/bl+, s+/s+, Sp/sp+



BBRed Modern Game hen (e+/e+):


--------------------------------
I hatched 3 chicks, all Spotty E/e+ Sp/sp+:

F1 spotty chicks



They start patchy grey as day olds, then first feathers come in white (sometimes some greyish tinge feathers). It's usually not until some months before they get patchy coloured feathers (in both black &/or gold feathers). But the two F1 pullets remained mostly white, except a bit of grey on the rump/underside. This was even though test F1 spotty pullet is bl+/bl+. It's rarer to get black spots on spotty hens.


Edited by KazJaps (09/28/17 07:19 PM)
Edit Reason: temporary update of image links

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#108936 - 03/16/13 11:33 PM Re: Aust. Pit Game spotty mutation [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2864
Loc: Australia
Next, I wanted to segregate the spotty mutation on to e+/e+, so I backcrossed a F1 spotty pullet back to Modern Game e+/e+ (also had a F1 blue spotty cockerel with wild-type hens, but 1st hen smashed her eggs, & too late in season for next 2 hens - no eggs laid). I hatched 3 settings from this single F1 spotty pullet (E/e+, s+/-, bl+/bl+, Sp/?).

BC1

Setting 1 (9 chicks):

- 5 E/e+ spotty (1 dead in shell)
- 3 E/e+ black
- 1 e+/e+

* 5 chicks survived
- 2 E/e+ spotty (cockerels)
- 2 E/e+ black (pullets)
- 1 e+/e+ wild-type (pullet)
--------------------------------

Setting 2 (8 chicks):
- 2 E/e+ spotty (cockerels)
- 1 e+/e+ spotty (cockerel)
- 2 E/e+ black ( pullets)
- 3 e+/e+ (pullets)
--------------------------------

Setting 3 (5 chicks):
- 1 E/e+ spotty
- 4 e+/e+ spotty
- 1 E/e+ black

Here are the 4 BC1 chick down phenotypes:

E/e+ Sp/sp+ Spotty & E/e+ sp+/sp+ black chicks:


e+/e+ Sp/sp+ Spotty wild-type & e+/e+ sp+/sp+ wild-type chicks:


E/e+ Sp/sp+ Spotty & e+/e+ Sp/sp+ spotty wild-type chicks:


Both E/e+ and e+/e+ Spotties feather up all white first feathers. The 2nd batch Spotty cockerels are just starting to develop some coloured feathers now. It's very different to I - dominant white, as both eumelanin & gold phaeomelanin pigments are diluted to white.

The last setting just hatched yesterday, so I don't know genders. But the two previous settings are indicating that Spotty is a sex-linked mutation, with all spotties being males & all non-spotties being females.

Later I'll make the spotty mutation homozygous on e+/e+ (might only be males, if sex-linked), then start trying to work out what locus the mutation occurred on. I'll start with testing B locus, if it turns out sex-linked.


Edited by KazJaps (09/28/17 07:22 PM)
Edit Reason: temporary update of image links

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#108939 - 03/17/13 12:30 AM Re: Aust. Pit Game spotty mutation [Re: KazJaps]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
Could this be comparable as with the "Platenbont" (no Splash, no Exchequer (Piebald) but a gene on his own) Silkies !?

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#108942 - 03/17/13 01:36 AM Re: Aust. Pit Game spotty mutation [Re: SilverSilkie]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2864
Loc: Australia
I don't think there is a comparison, especially if it turns out sex-linked smile

The Platenbont / Painted Silkies compare with I/i+ het. Dominant White & possibly Erminette (which wasn't tested with I locus). This includes chick down. Only when the spotties are solid eumelanin based are there some similarities - adult plumage only:

BC1 E/e+ Sp/sp+ spotty cockerels (1st batch):


Yet Spotty is unique in:
  • 1 - day-old chick down (patchy grey-eumelanin & light brown-phaeomelanin, darker on tip of head & face, often bleached back & lower head),
  • 2 - an extreme diluter of both id+ and E or ER epidermal pigment,
  • 3 - changes dark/brown eye colour to orange.
  • 4 - possibly sex-linked
  • 5 - E -extended black I/i+ & Platenbont day-old down often start white with black spots, yet Spotty never do have black - develop spots after 2 or 3 months.
  • 6 - dilutes both eumelanin AND phaeomelanin:


F1 blue spotty roo:
(E/e+ or ER/e+ Sp/sp+)


*Most gold feathers diluted to white (where expressed, correspond to male Brown Red base only)

BC1 e+/e+ wild-type spotty cockerel (& 2nd batch sisters)
(e+/e+ Sp/sp+):



Close-up of e+/e+ Sp/sp+ spotty cockerel -developing spots



Ie most of phaeomelanin neck/saddle feathers are bleached white (very different to I/i+ piles - at this age the latter would have alot of gold/red on neck hackles & wings).


The spotty mutation is similar to "Red Splash" with its effects on phaeomelanin.


Edited by KazJaps (09/28/17 07:31 PM)
Edit Reason: temporary update of image links

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#108943 - 03/17/13 02:01 AM Re: Aust. Pit Game spotty mutation [Re: KazJaps]
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3228
Loc: Netherlands
So it has an Id like effect AND it is sexlinked?
Guess what I am thinking... wink

(Clue: welsumers e+/e+ Id/(Id) have sexable chickdown.)

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#108945 - 03/17/13 02:47 AM Re: Aust. Pit Game spotty mutation [Re: Henk69]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
Is this : id^a - Ancona (mottled pigment) ?

The feather in the wing seem to be "diluted" eumelanine (or does it contains less pigment) !?

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#108946 - 03/17/13 03:50 AM Re: Aust. Pit Game spotty mutation [Re: SilverSilkie]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2864
Loc: Australia
Considering that these BC1 cockerels are E/e+ (or ER/e) & how dark the leg & beak spots are, I think that this is more likely a significant dose of epidermal pigment showing through.

The e+/e+ wild-type line I used is id+-like except that there is a tinge of pigment on day-olds (so probably not id+, but only slight difference). These BC1 spotty cockerels are getting one Id locus allele from this wild-type line, plus one from the spotty pit game line (from their mother & grandfather). All the BC1 e+/e+ pullets have pigment tinted day-old leg colour (getting this allele from their father - wild-type line). Usually the E spotty have quite clean yellow legs/feet but I noticed with the BC1 e+/e+ spotty that there is remnant day-old leg dermal pigment (same as the wild-type line). Yet the cockerels are only getting one dose of dermal pigment (Id locus allele) from the wild-type line. And the 2nd batch e+/e+ spotty cockerel has even pale legs (still a slight tinge) yet his sibling e+/e+ wild-type sisters have very dark dermal leg pigment. So I don't know, I suspect this cockerel is homozygous for dermal pigment alleles (due to slight expression - Id would not express at all). Say that Spotty is an allele of the B locus, then there would be a very close linkage to Id locus anyway.


It is common for some of the pigmented feathers to have white tips (a bit like random mottling/exchequer pattern). You can also see this with the right black spot with the e+/e+ spotty cockerel.

-------------------------
Here are some photos of the 3rd batch chickens (all spotties, 1 E/e+, the rest e+/e+):


The following three all e+/e+ spotties:




And here is the Henny Spotty Pit Game cockerel when he was showing some faint irregular barring:


So I am hoping that spotty is a B locus mutation. Might be why the day-old chick down is greyish diluted (similar to some E B light barred Plymouth Rock lines) & often with a bleached patch on the head, plus bleached back? Sort of an extreme B^Sd (sex-linked dilution).


Edited by KazJaps (09/28/17 07:28 PM)
Edit Reason: temporary update of image links

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#108947 - 03/17/13 04:14 AM Re: Aust. Pit Game spotty mutation [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2864
Loc: Australia


E/e+ left, e+/e+ right.

This photo shows the tinted dermal pigment on day-old e+/e+ spotty (this is the same individual as 2nd batch e+/e+ spotty juvenile cockerel - close-up photos).


Edited by KazJaps (09/28/17 07:24 PM)
Edit Reason: temporary update of image links

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#108948 - 03/17/13 05:05 AM Re: Aust. Pit Game spotty mutation [Re: KazJaps]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
Californa Grey !?

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#108960 - 03/18/13 02:42 AM Re: Aust. Pit Game spotty mutation [Re: SilverSilkie]
Piet Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 10/07/10
Posts: 262
Loc: Belgium
the chick down looks like my Buff x dominant white crosses

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