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#110448 - 08/25/13 02:22 PM Yogurt to manage cocci infections
Jimbo Offline
Feather

Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 44
Loc: Missouri
I let a good portion of my hens rear chicks near breeding pens. Chicks go in and out of pens a lot and when it is rainy many of the chicks seem to come down with cocci. I can manage it reasonably well with Corid (20%) laced water but a two complications sometimes show up. One is where GIT appear infected by bacteria which is easy enough to handle using OTC but the other seems to involve chicks becoming constipated which results in reduced feed intake and often death. I am setting up to try adding yogurt to feed mix for the "constipated" chicks. Has anyone done this and have a yogurt / feed mix they think works?

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#110449 - 08/25/13 05:19 PM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: Jimbo]
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
Yogurt is important AFTER the Corid treatment, (5 days?) not at the same time. I use medicated Starter Feed, so have only had a few Cocci (actually only 3 in about 20 years) infections--and on wet grass==don't do that with chicks any more. After treatment, mix yogurt in their feed each day until droppings are firm and birds active and eating well --only what they will eat at a time, as it will spoil quickly. especially in our Hot weather! All the good bacteria in the gut is killed, by the Corid--along with the Protozoa--and then the gut must be replenished wih the good stuff that they need for digesting their feed. Yogurt will do it and water soluable Vitamins may be useful,also. Good luck, CJR

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#110452 - 08/25/13 07:09 PM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: CJR]
Jimbo Offline
Feather

Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 44
Loc: Missouri
I was not aware Corid is a broad spectrum antibiotic. My reasoning for trying yogurt was it soothed gut until damage caused by cocci was repaired. I can make it fresh twice daily to ensure to feed ups. Does the yogurt contain something that neutralizes Corid activity against the cocci?

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#110453 - 08/25/13 07:33 PM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: Jimbo]
Altair Offline
Bantam

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 64
Loc: Vermont, USA
Curious, why not use medicated feed and not really have to worry?

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#110456 - 08/26/13 03:46 AM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: Altair]
Jimbo Offline
Feather

Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 44
Loc: Missouri
I control cocci with medicated feeds effectively only in brooder that is kept relatively free of contamination from outside sources. Biosecurity for cocci is difficult when keeping birds both inside and outside. In brooder, once cocci start causing health issues, something stronger is needed. Cocci control with free-range chicks I cam not able to achieve with medicated feeds. The cocci here appear resistant to the medication used in feeds or at least with respect to the level used in diet. Best control measure I have is having hen raised chicks kept well away from concentrations of older birds but I have difficulties keeping hens where I want them.

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#110459 - 08/26/13 11:39 AM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: Jimbo]
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
I raise bantams for breeding and for exhibition. I feed chicks with medicated Starter crumbles until the pullets start to lay. The low dose Amprolium in the feed takes time to develop "total" immunity They seem to have complete immunity to cocci by laying time and Grower is best used for large fowl or Cockerels for fyers or broilers, so I do not bother to change feeds until laying-time. First egg/eggs, I mix Starter and Layer crumbles for a couple of weeks, then pullets are on Layer crumbles,. We each learn what works best for our birds (breeds and purpose) at our locations in the country,as well as our housing and management. Good luck CJR

I used Sulmet for the birds that had severe Cocci symptoms (lost 1)--and it is a 5-10 day treatment, depending upon age of chicks--and THEN the Yogurt and Vitamin addition is added--clear out the Cocci first, then heal the intestines and replace the good bacteria.

Damerow "The Chicken Health Handbook" and my experience,,,,

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#110460 - 08/26/13 03:48 PM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: CJR]
Altair Offline
Bantam

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 64
Loc: Vermont, USA
I haven't raised chicks very often, having also been lucky enough to be on earth that have never seen chickens. I've used medicated feed and haven't lost a chick from cocci so far. Hens I see raising chicks seem to thrive even when fed little to no commercial rations. I would say the weaker birds would die leaving the resistent but perhaps coccidiosis isn't so much a problem in my area.

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#110461 - 08/26/13 04:17 PM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: Altair]
Jimbo Offline
Feather

Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 44
Loc: Missouri
I used to live in Indiana keeping the same line of games kept here now. Back where I grew up cocci where not a problem for out games under any conditions even though conditions were wetter than in my current location. My brother has effectively the same genetics in his flock currently which is in Indiana and does not have an inkling about how fun cocci can be. When rearing hatchery Rhoad Island Reds and Barred Rocks in Indiana we often had cocci problems under the same set of conditions that did not cause problems for the games. It must be a interaction of genetics between birds and cocci.

I do think you are on to something with respect to feed-fed free-range chicks that are more inclined to cocci infection. Chicks operating fully independently of broadcast feed seldom have cocci issues even here so long as they stay clear of pens.

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#111334 - 01/10/14 12:32 AM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: Jimbo]
jonnydot Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 298
Loc: australia
Compeditive Exclusion
By Jon Baldwin on Monday, May 27, 2013 at 10:38pm

Transcript is from an ABC PROGRAMME





Look in your yoghurt

You'll find them there

Healthy bugs are everywhere

Rid your chooks of all that's toxic

A boon to mankind, the probiotic

We now know that to make their babies grow big strong and healthy, parents should allow their offspring to play in the dirt, exposing them to microorganisms that trigger systems in their body to fight off more serious germs in the future. Much the same applies to poultry. These days, however, newly hatched chickens under intensive rearing may not have that opportunity, so we have to lend them a helping hand.

Providing young chickens with good germs is the basis of a process called competitive exclusion or CE. In simple terms, CE involves the feeding to young, even one-day-old chickens of a mixture of microorganisms derived from the gut of a healthy adult chicken.

There is widespread concern in the community about the use of antibiotics in the food supply, especially in production of food animals, including chickens. Competitive exclusion offers a natural alternative to the use of antibiotics for preventative management of bad bacteria. At the same time, food safety and the threat posed by pathogenic microorganisms is a major global issue. There is rapidly growing awareness that food animals carry disease-causing microorganisms, allowing pathogens such as Salmonella to find their way into our kitchens and, potentially, into our bodies. Various Australian studies have shown that rates of contamination of chicken meat with Salmonella range from around 20% during processing, to as high as 100% on retail products.

Competitive exclusion is not a simple matter of popping a pill or a daily dose of a fermented dairy drink containing just one type of good bacterium. To work properly, a CE preparation has to contain high levels of many different types of bacteria, a mixture that simulates the immense variation among the bacteria that occur in the gut of any animal, including us. Some mixtures may contain more than fifty different bacteria.

Where do these bacteria come from? The first researchers to investigate this process, in Finland, back in the 1970s, produced an undefined bacterial soup, by mixing faeces (that's right, pooh!) from a healthy adult chicken with a nutritious broth, and allowing the bacteria to grow. This soup was then fed to young chickens, which became much more resistant to colonisation by Salmonella than their untreated counterparts. At that time, competitive exclusion was known as the Nurmi Concept, a phrase coined after the Finnish researcher who developed the pooh soup.

More recent research has focussed on identifying all of the ingredients in the soup, then combining them in different ways to produce the best product, in much the same way a chef might experiment with different spices to get the best flavour. This is an attractive proposition. Bad bugs may hitchhike along with all the good bugs in a pooh soup, and this is one reason why effective CE preparations made overseas cannot be imported into Australia. However, rates of exclusion using a defined product are usually not as good those using a basic pooh soup. Putting it another way, you usually get better results with a smorgasbord than a set menu. So finding the right set menu then is a major challenge.

Also, it appears that the best bugs come from particular parts of the chicken gut. Getting these best bits means adult chickens have to die, but it's all for the greater good of the next generation. In real-world terms though, it means something very useful may come of what amounts to waste from poultry processing.

So how does competitive exclusion work? It's a very complex process but we do have some ideas. Most importantly, the good bacteria act like squatters. If they find an empty house, like the naked gut of a newly hatched chicken, they're very quick to move in, and they do their very best to make sure no-one else can. Some also produce chemicals that make the environment in the gut a much less attractive place to be. Think of a swimming pool. It might look inviting, but if you jump in and the water's freezing, you're going to get out pretty quickly. Others may compete with the intruder for food. Anyone who's been to boarding school will know that the food that's left after everyone else has eaten is usually not the most mouthwatering. Still others might even act like those good germs in the dirt. While they don't affect the bad bugs directly, some of the good bugs stimulate the defence systems of the body to better fight off pathogens.

At the University of New South Wales, I've been looking at competitive exclusion as a tool to eliminate Salmonella from meat chickens for the Australian industry, with promising results.

Like the early researchers, I've taken different materials from different parts of the gut of healthy chickens, cooked them up in the lab to produce a range of soups, then fed each to chicks to see if they resist the advances of Salmonella. While some recipes didn't work, several proved very efficient at excluding Salmonella. Like Humpty Dumpty though, breaking them up and trying to put them back together again just didn't work. The recipe was improved by taking a mixture of starting materials, literally passing them through two lots of day-old chicks, finally producing a mixture that excluded Salmonella completely.

At this point I've got something that works in the lab, but that's under well-controlled conditions. My soup is yet to be tested in the field. Out there, under normal production conditions, factors such as stress deplete the body's defences and may decrease the efficiency of exclusion. It's also important that the good bugs get there first. In the old days new chicks got good bugs from their mum's waste, but under modern conditions of poultry production that's unlikely. Like an unwanted guest at party, if Salmonella arrives early, it's very hard to get rid of, but if the room's full, chances are it'll turn around and leave. One other challenge is to take my soup recipe out of the kitchen and into the factory, so there's enough to feed the millions of chickens across the country.

Oh, the actual recipe? Like those 11 herbs and spices, the recipe has to stay a secret, at least for now.



Guests

Julian Cox

http://www.foodscience.unsw.edu.au/people/cox.html

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#111335 - 01/10/14 12:33 AM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: jonnydot]
jonnydot Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 298
Loc: australia
Probiotics and Prebiotics
By Jon Baldwin on Wednesday, May 22, 2013 at 3:50am

Probiotics are Live microorganisms which when administered in adequate amounts bestow a health benefit on the host and are causative to faster growth rates



Prebiotics are non-digestible food ingredients that stimulate the growth and/or activity of healthy bacteria in the digestive system . A prebiotic is a selectively fermented ingredient that allows specific changes, both in the composition and/or activity in the gastrointestinal micro flora that confers benefits upon a hosts well-being and health



Bacterial diversity

Bacteria are a diverse, and metabolically active, component of a healthy digestive tract, and there can be up to 1012 = 1,000,000,000,000 or a trillion bacteria per gram of digesta. It is estimated that the number of bacterial species in the GI tract generally varies from 400 to 500. Newly hatched chicks are sterile and obtain bacteria from the environment immediately after hatch ,usually from their mothers fecal droppings ,I give all incubated chicks a boost of probiotics ,as they are placed into the brooder with a availability of natural yogurt with live culture's,cabbage with Vegemite spread on it ,and prebiotics with the introduction of Unpasteurised Apple Cider Vinegar (must have "Mother" in it ) in their water ,I use a rate of 2 teaspoons per litre

Bacterial profile, including species and numbers of each organism, is specific to each segment of the Gastrointestinal Tract and can be influenced by a wide variety of factors, such as the pH of the digesta, digesta passage rate, gut immune system activity, and diet. It should be noted that commercial poultry kept under similar conditions often may not have the same bacterial species in a specific segment of the GI tract.

Bacteria acquire most of the nutrients required for growth and maintenance from the birdís diet and, as a result, the diet can have a major influence on the total number and diversity of bacterial populations in the gut.

The gut micro biota becomes much more complex as the bird ages, and some bacterial species become dominant. Interestingly according to a study conducted at the University of Georgia, the gut micro biota can also be influenced by the sex of a bird. The results of this study showed that similarity in gut bacterial profiles between male and female broilers was less than 30%.

Functions of gut microflora

The gut microflora is involved in a wide array of physiological, nutritional, and immunological events, which can directly, or indirectly, affect the health and productivity of commercial flocks.

The normal population of microbes in the intestine protects the host animal from pathogenic microorganisms. It has been reported that beneficial bacteria, for example Lactobacillus acidophilus, were able to suppress the pathogenic effects of Clostridium perfringens ( a type of food poisoning) in the small intestine of broiler chickens through inhibition of proliferation or toxin production.

In another study, Lactobacillus spp (A probiotic) isolated from the chicken intestine had inhibitory effects on the growth of pathogenic bacteria such as Salmonella and Escherichia coli ( Most E. coli strains are harmless, but some can cause serious food poisoning The harmless strains are part of the normal flora of the gut, and can benefit their hosts by producing Vitamin K2, and by preventing the establishment of pathogenic bacteria within the intestine.) under in vitro conditions. This may have resulted from the production of organic acids in the intestine.

Probiotics in clinical trials have shown to decrease the incidence of respiratory infections. They work in different ways such as competitive exclusion,this effectively stops large amounts pathogenic bacteria from attaching to the gut walls and colonizing.Probiotics also stimulate the immune system and produce their own bacteria fighting substances such as Lactoferrin , Lysozyme and Hydrogen Peroxide as well as several organic acids,these have a detrimental effect that antagonise and damage harmful bacteria and by producing other substances that stimulate gastrointestinal immune response and keep the birds system within the normal PH range

Probiotics aid in digestion by promoting enzyme production,It is well established that probiotcs alter the gastrointestinal PH to favour an increased activity of intestinal enzymes that helps with the digestion of foods and nutrient absorption.They also aid in other holistic respects such as and as an example:- Bacterial Chondron ecrosis with osteomyelitis (BCO) and Microbial infection ,this causes Necrotic degeneration of the Femour and Tibia ,this transports from the intestine via trans location through the cirulary system and from there to capillaries that irrigate the bone,probiotics inhibit this trans location of bacterial leakage in gross amounts and also by a "priming"of the the immune system to better eliminate trans location bacteria that have managed to find a spot in the gut to inhabit.

Abstract

Probiotcs are indeed a needed Live flora that are involved in a wide array of physiological,nutritional and immunological events which can directly or indirectly ,effect the greater health and productivity of flocks via a further enablement of immune response, to wit internal manufacture of Hydrogen Peroxide and promotion of Immune system" Killer" cells, and also via competitive exclusions of Pathogenic Bacterias from the fowls on a holistic proportion.They are unfortunately killed and thus expelled by the introduction of antibiotics and possibly a heavy Garlic dose and should be replaced immediately to aid in proper and further healing. Growth and maintenance of these helpful Bacterias can be aided with an introduction of prebiotcs such as ones found in Unpasteurized Apple Cider Vinegar with the "Mother" in it.Probiotics are available in every day day foods and are also aerobical and also anaerobes (They can live in the presence of oxygen but do not require it).The introduction of them is easily done along with Vitamin and nutrient supplements via organic manufactured products that provide a wide scope of these healthy Bacteria, one of which is Polyaid Plus ... Cabbage and natural yogurt with live cultures will supply an immediate introduction of some of these bacterias in an emergency situation or while waiting for a delivery of manufactured cultures.

This was written from a personal understanding and also with the aid of numerous Scholarly and factual help from such sites as Wikipedia to confirm some of my more hazy facts, Hopefully it has instilled a greater understanding towards the greater health of our birds
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#111336 - 01/10/14 12:36 AM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: jonnydot]
jonnydot Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 298
Loc: australia
Immune System Booster
By Jon Baldwin on Wednesday, May 15, 2013 at 9:43pm

DIY IMMUNE SYSTEM BOOSTER

Purchase a bottle of 35% food grade Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) *Note:- This in this form is poisonous and highly caustic (it will burn you're skin) and a bottle of non chlorinated water and a tub of natural yogurt

EXPLANATION

H2O2 contains 1 more oxygen atom of water. H2O2 is what white blood cells make to oxidize and expel foreign bodies,alive and innate & is a basic requirement for good health. Vitamin C is in fact the Agent needed for an immune system to make H2O2 ,this is why you are always told to take extra .H202 also stimulates enzyme's throughout a body , this triggers an increase in metabolic rate & in turn builds & allows more and stronger white blood cells to attack infections.

Mix a dose into a dark eye dropper bottle and refrigerate, place the 35% solution in the freezer (( away from children who may think it is a frozen treat) (freezes @ -2oC)),give regular probiotics such as natural yogurt to promote good Bacterial Flora

MIX RATES



Mix 1 (one) drop of H2O2 TO 12 drops of non chlorinated water



DOSE



Give internally via an eye dropper 3 drops three times a day for ten days then 2 drops once a day for for 3 weeks.*The bird may appear to worsen this is so, as the body is expelling infections more readily,via sneezing , coughing , head shaking and more Urates in the pheases , and draws more energy to do this . Extra vitamins and protein will expedite this expulsion and build the birds strength
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#111352 - 01/10/14 08:48 PM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: jonnydot]
Redcap Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 946
Loc: Germany
Do never such experiments and use this internally.
The best is to use an Antibiotic!
After that You can use Yoghurt aswell!
_________________________

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#111353 - 01/10/14 09:15 PM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: Redcap]
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
Yes, use the Sulmet (or other treatment) to kill the cocci, which also kills all the"good" bacteria in the intestines--strictly according to directions-- Then add the natural plain Yoghurt to the feed, which will replace the good stuff and get the bird absorbing nutrients again.

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#111416 - 01/14/14 10:01 AM Re: Yogurt to manage cocci infections [Re: CJR]
jonnydot Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 298
Loc: australia
The above recipe is not for cocci treatment ,merely as a booster to waylay secondary infections,H2O2 is made naturally with a body ,the use of this is to build up reserves,I have used this along with Pelargonium Sidoides to treat and cure Diptheric pox (wet pox)

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