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#110888 - 11/01/13 03:18 PM Re: What color is this? [Re: BjarneS]
Wieslaw Offline
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Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3751
Loc: Denmark
Cross-over can only happen in roosters, but it is an easy thing to do, as silver and barring are very far appart.

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#110895 - 11/01/13 11:41 PM Re: What color is this? [Re: Wieslaw]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2792
Loc: Australia
Yes, it doesn't look like Smoky (different shade of grey), but could be another mutation of the I Dominant White locus.

Yes, there is no close linkage between B - sex-linked barring & S - Silver (segregate independently).

They don't seem to have sex-linked barring B, like the original Queen Silvias (were there ever any original Queen Silvia varieties without B? - otherwise b+ - probably poor or no autosexing traits).

You can tell birds without B, eg, at the website (link provided) some solid eumelanin in the tails, etc (should have eumelanin/white bars), & the gold version on the website should have black/gold bars (autosomal barring), gold/white bars (sex-linked barring on phaeomelanin), and black/white bars (sex-linked barring on eumelanin), if B present. Plus B/B males are usually paler, & B/- & B/B easy to see on chick down.

As to the eumelanin diluted hens, I would test cross with one of the Gold autosomal barred roosters - b+/b+ (that would not be carrying the recessive diluter), see if a sex-linked mutation (eg an allele of the B locus), plus breed the F1 together & see if any traits like lav where both eumelanin & gold phaeomelanin (s+/s+ or s+/-) are diluted.


Edited by KazJaps (11/02/13 05:47 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarified last sentence

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#110896 - 11/01/13 11:53 PM Re: What color is this? [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2792
Loc: Australia
The following paper has some Cambar photos:

Genetic studies in Poultry. VIII. On a case of sex-linkage within a breed.
R. C. Punnett and M. S. Pease
1930. Jour. Gen. 22: 395-397
full paper

*The feather closeups of the barred hen seem to have faint whitish bars within some of the black autosomal bars, plus the feather undercolour seems to be affected too.

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#110898 - 11/02/13 10:56 AM Re: What color is this? [Re: KazJaps]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3751
Loc: Denmark
In case somebody did not pay enough attention while reading the document provided by Kazjaps, I quote:

Quote:
It will be noticed that the gold in the feather, where present, is paler than in the pure Campine. This is especially noticeable in the gold neck hackles, and is doubtless due to some inhibitory influence exerted by the sex-linked barring factor on the formation of this pigment.


It is exactly what I said in one of the old threads on legbars. I love to say "I told you" (especially to my wife smile )

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#110926 - 11/09/13 09:56 AM Re: What color is this? [Re: Wieslaw]
BjarneS Offline
Chick

Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 17
Loc: Sverige


After talking some more with the breeder and doing some reading I am woundering if these birds might be bared sexlinked dilute (Bsd) combined with silver.It is acting as dominant trait.The above roster produced the previous pictured pale hens and regular silvers when bred to regular silver hens .Here as hatchlings.


Next photos is what the same rooster produced when bred back to his pale daughters.There where also the paler type in the above photo among the ofspring


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#110928 - 11/09/13 10:42 AM Re: What color is this? [Re: BjarneS]
Kaalnek Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 415
Loc: California
I've had Bsd and to me they don't even come close.. there was very strong tendency to have a lot of white at the base of feathers on all Bsd, even on the 'darkest' birds. The birds are too dark, and the tails are way solid to be Bsd. Even that rooster does not look Bsd to me- too much color in tail.

Those birds below were bred by me, they were on black(don't know if E or ER)and nothing else. Notice how much white each feather on the hen has. Tail almost half white etc.








Personally, the birds in the first post look to have autosomal barring pattern. I suppose if you really want to settle this, breed that rooster to a black hen. If it's Bsd, it should be extremely obvious.

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#110953 - 11/13/13 11:58 AM Re: What color is this? [Re: Kaalnek]
BjarneS Offline
Chick

Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 17
Loc: Sverige
Thank you Kaalneck .Hard to find good info and photos of Carlifonia grey with and many doesn´t even seams to have Bsd.

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#111150 - 12/18/13 03:32 AM Re: What color is this? [Re: BjarneS]
Berend Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 08/24/12
Posts: 234
Loc: Nederland
Could it be pearlgrey S or lavender s+ (pearlgrey isabel.)
Just like mine (pencilled), see the pics.







Edited by Henk69 (12/18/13 09:15 AM)

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#111151 - 12/18/13 09:16 AM Re: What color is this? [Re: Berend]
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands
parelgrijs = lavender
wink

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#111157 - 12/20/13 09:57 AM Re: What color is this? [Re: Henk69]
BjarneS Offline
Chick

Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 17
Loc: Sverige
Finaly managed to find a photo of a Cambar ,it was in a egg for sale listing .The text say that the seller have been working for three years to recreate the Cambar looking at the roster the project seams only half finshed ,but I think the hens have Cambar fenotype ..not very pretty

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