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#11203 - 02/14/04 09:04 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Again- thank you all so much!

I cannot thank you all enough. Whether you agree or whether you don't- your imput has been so important, all of you. You've given me a "Big Picture", a way to weigh out all the pros and cons on the subject.
To try to have an "informed" opinion, and with such, try to do what's right, by the animals I care for.

This may not be hopeless afterall.
I believe "the old hands", whose opinions I asked for. The scientists, hobbiests, and teachers out there with such experience, you've given me a "crash course" in poultry management.

I don't think this is going to end, yet. There are still options to be explored.
Again, I have the luxury of some time, to think everything out.

I thank you all, for participating in this discussion. You have no idea how important your opinions have been...I will let you know how things go.
Cheers,
Raven

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#11204 - 02/15/04 12:59 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Sally Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 08/15/03
Posts: 686
Loc: Florida
Hi Raven,
It has taken me most of an hour or more to read and re-read this post....The magnitude of it dumbfounds me. I have bought and sold poultry for years. I have never purchased any at auction but you really never know just where they come from initially. We sell hundreds of chicks at the feed store in the spring and fall. I hatch chicks year around from my own flock and sell them at the feed store too.
I have had health problems from time to time with them but usually it was manageable. Once I had a bout with gapeworms (brought in with outside birds), and I believe my flock went through a round of fowlpox. In the case of the pox it was more of an annoyance than anything, all got well and I was told they would be immune from then on without vaccinating. As to the gapeworms, well, once I was made aware of what it probably was by the symtoms, I treated them all and had no further losses. I have never, and don't know anyone who has, ever tested their birds for MG or MS. I wouldn't know what to look for, even through all the posts here before mine. If it is a runny nose or cough, weepy eyes or sneezing, any and all of these things are symptomatic of many things possible in Florida.
I have recently purchased Peafowl from Mousori. To be prudent (and extremely cautious) I have not had these birds within several hundred feet of any existing birds on my property. Not because I think they will get sick from mine, if I was worried about that I wouldn't have mortgaged my husband for them laugh (tee hee). I did it to allow them to get acustomed to our
weather water,bacteria due to the hot climate and short winters, nothing really dies off.)
I know that if I was in your situation I would quit selling my birds, but, I would NEVER kill them. I wouldn't even quit breeding them. My favorite birds are my roosters. I may not hatch many eggs but I wouldn't kill my stock. I am so sure some out there may think that is selfish and irresponsible but that is the way I stand. I know the board is split on this, and my view is NOT sentimental completely, I too believe that what affects some will pass over and not affect others. We live with this every day with the threat of EPM in horses. We have had 20 horses stabled together and 1 horse contracts it and no others are affected at all. The same for West Nile Virus etc. PLEASE exhaust all forms of research and avenues of choice before you destroy your bird-buds. Truly my prayers are with you. It seems you have already had way more than your share of grief. I pray the rest of your decisions are happy and to your benefit.
Sally
_________________________
sallyDIABLO

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#11205 - 02/15/04 03:17 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Raven - if you click this link and then scroll all the way to the bottom of the page it says that the NPIP has active control programs for three types of mycoplasma. Perhaps you could contact them for some more info? Not sure if they will be able to help you or not but it might be worth a try? I think I'm going to contact them too in my state. Good luck!!

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/npip/

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#11206 - 02/16/04 08:38 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, it's 2.30am and my eyes are hanging out, but I had to read all of these posts, and I must say, if this was a debate, the 'don't kill' team has won by a mile!! There seems to me to be no question that in this particular case, given all the circumstnaces, there is no need whatsoever to cull 'healthy' birds. Who exactly are they likely to infect? Especially given that apparently 70% of all the othe birds out there also have it. Dear Raven, you have had the most unbearable burden put on you, and I pray that you have found much comfort and the voice of reason from all these wonderful people here at the Coop. All will be well, no matter what the results are - please listen to all the encouragement you have been given. My prayeres are with you tonight.

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#11207 - 02/16/04 11:38 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Thank you, Sally, lorif, Broody Hen, and everyone else who's taken time to read and respond to this problem. I'd never had a PM before, and now I'm swamped! Most people either agree with D.Caveny, or don't. LOL. That's a broad range of people...

Today is day 4 of treatment. Every bird in the laying house is clean as a whistle- for now.
If I don't move them, they'll surely re-infect, I know.
Having had the benefit of a great many intelligent people talking and posting to me has been great. Most agree that I should try to save my flock, if only to enjoy them myself for the rest of their natural lives. I can live with that... smile

My hopes for super-dark egg layers has been dashed with the loss of my Marans rooster. Today I collected some gorgeous eggs, and smiled, knowing every single one of them was probably fertile,he was a great rooster, and he gave me all pullets. 3 will be laying shortly. They were born of affected parents, but have never sneezed themselves.
I will not kill them. Perhaps in the spring if this continues to plague me I'll feel differently, but today they are all safe.

My reasoning, aside from being purely selfish, is that maybe, somewhere in this mess, I'll find the answer. Perhaps those chicks will provide me with a generation of resistant chickens. If nothing else, at least I have a few replacements for my older sex-links- these gals pump out eggs regardless of stress, cold, molt, anything. They are machines, and nice sweet ladies besides.

I owe them for providing for our family under such bad conditions.

And of course, there's my little Buff Brahmas X Mille Fleur D'uccles who are the friendliest, most talkative little things. When you open the door and 5 chicks fly up to roost on your shoulder "just because they love you", what can you do but fight for them?
I have to- they are so brave and plucky. If I gave them this disease by breeding their mother- I'm responsible for their lives. I'm not taking that responsibility lightly.

My choice isn't for everyone, that's for sure. But in my case, where I won't be breeding, showing, giving away birds or hatching eggs, and there's no other poultry around- this makes sense to me.
My sister contacted me last night, a professional in veterinary medicine who worked on the poultry research farm at the Ag. College, and had Mycoplasma Pneumoniae (not related to what we're discussing) last year. She says Mycoplasmas are EVERYWHERE, they were in every single farm she worked. She says don't kill them, it's futile. That's good enough for me...
This story, is to be continued...
Cheers,
Raven

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#11208 - 02/16/04 04:04 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Raven - ok just one more post on this and then I'll leave you be! wink I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is a third year vet student at U of Penn, specializing in farm animal health. She said the same thing as your sister - mycoplasma is everywhere and you really can't avoid it. She said the only problem with having it in your flock is it will weaken your birds if they are under stress, opening them up to secondary infections. She said if you have known mycoplasma in your flock you just need to learn to keep a very close eye on them and treat them for any infections or illness they develop right away. But if they are well taken care of, in a clean enviroment with good food and are wormed regularly they should live long, happy, normal lives and be just fine. It's sad now that you have lost your roosters frown , but at least now your hens can be spared. Good luck and please keep us posted on how things are going! Take care!

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#11209 - 02/17/04 06:05 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Spotted Crow Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 855
Loc: Massachusetts
Here's a stupid question, Raven, what made you have them tested in the first place?

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#11210 - 02/17/04 09:00 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Hi Spotted Crow-
Not a stupid question at all.

I and a friend's flock, have been battling this very "non-specific" disease since the fall, when I bought a rooster from a show. He developed symptoms of "a cold" reasonably quickly- sneezing, eyes running, and coughing, rattling when he coughed. He did recover, but got sick again a few mnoths ago.
I noticed his chicks had the same symptoms when they were a few days old, just sneezing usually. They recovered, and it didn't kill anything.

Now, I know my flock WELL. Every bird, every noise they make. Since then, slowly, one bird at a time, someone in my flock would be sneezing. After reading and asking questions, it was pretty evident what it was, we just weren't 100% sure where it came from. When the chicks were all born with some degree respiratory symptoms, I was pretty sure what I was dealing with, but not where it came from or how to get rid of it...
I raise broilers enough for our family every year (before I got my laying hens) and a few always had the same or similar problems. No deaths- but the roosters especially would rattle and gurgle as they were getting close to slaughter age. After lots of calls to the veterinary college and stuff, we decided to test-- last week I had that rooster euthanized and necropsied. He came back positive for both Mycoplasma Galliceptum, and Mycoplasma Synovaie. My friend had her birds tested at the same time, her's were also positive. My next door neighbours chickens free ranged with mine all fall, so they are also infected.
I ruled out everything else. Not Mareks, not Newcastle, not Infectious laryngotracheitis (where we would legally have to kill EVERY SINGLE bird.)Not Infectious sinusitis or bronchitis.

It's this. It's here. It's a big pain in the butt because I don't want sick stock, but I also don't want to kill off my chickens. Not if there's a chance of re-infection- and with free-ranging chickens next door who are positive- it would happen. I can't ask my neighbour to kill his chickens, so I have to deal with this the best way I can.
I'm waiting for a second opinion from Quelph Ont. that should be in Wednesday or Thursday. They will also recommend what I should do. Use of Oxine- which I can't find, Strict bio-security, cleaning out the houses and leaving them empty, and killing every bird would be the QUICKEST fix. I culled my roosters last week, to stop breeding.
But it really won't help if a new flock would get it- I'm not willing to coop my birds forever, they work here, free-ranging eats lots of bugs, laying eggs, we have some we "could" eat potentially... There's no health risk to eating affected eggs or chickens to my knowledge. So I'm going to deal with it this way.

Not breed. Not show. Not sell eggs. Not have roosters to make any more positive chicks. Not sell my meat birds. Lots of NOTS, but I love these guys, all are pets and good at what they do. The layers are awesome, never giving me a sick looking egg- no banding or mishapen eggs. They have always remained healthy- which could mean they are carriers who don't show symptoms. Once infected, they are carriers for life.

If you have sneezing, runny eyes, crusty noses, no deaths, but someone always "not quite right"- chances are it's there, too. I'm learning it's damn near everywhere...
Yes, it can be controlled- after 5 days of IM injections, my chickens are all 100%. But in a week or a month, someone will start again. It'll be a vicious cycle of treatment for secondary infections, followed by healthy birds, followed again by someone sneezing. But for me in this circumstance- I can look after them for their natural lives,not worrying about transmitting it, as no one will get in or out to see my birds. There are no other poultry for miles...
And- perhaps these chicks will never show another symptom, so far- though they've been thru a cold hard winter- his chicks are fine. They aren't immune, just don't have symptoms...
Hope that helps, and thanks!

Raven

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#11211 - 02/17/04 02:50 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Raven, type in oxine under search - above. It'll take you to a discussion I had with Daphne, and she provides the website for the information and ordering. Good luck!

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#11212 - 02/17/04 03:17 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Forgot to mention, our discussion is in Waterfowl,(how are your birds taking to winter), but for quick access here's the site:
www.shagbarkbantams.com/oxine.htm
Good luck!

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