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#11183 - 02/12/04 09:59 AM My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Hi:
Ok, you old hands, I need some help. Really badly.
My backyard flock tested positive for both MG and MS- (Chronic Resp. Disease and the one that causes paralysis) which is what I'd suspected, it's now definate. So very very sad.
I do know they will be carriers if I choose not to "de-populate". Here's the question- does anyone know if they shed the virus when well, or only when sick/symptomatic? This is a really important consideration.
It's carried by wild birds, and is passed thru the egg to the chicks, so I have killed all my roosters hoping to save the rest. I don't see the sense in killing off my flock if a new one will just become re-infected, not to mention it will completely break my heart. Only some chickens are sick, none have died except the one I had necropsied. This has been going on since Aug.
The vet at the college told me that commercial farms are pretty well MG free, but backyard breeders like myself could be continuing this illness by bringing in stock, breeding, selling, etc. I'm heartsick, and need some real facts from someone who's been through this.
There is no hazard to human health, I understand.
Help!Thanks,Raven

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#11184 - 02/12/04 10:55 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello Raven.I am so sorry and your post has brought back the heart ache I felt when it happened to my hens.There are a lot of quack cures and I probably tried most of them. Mycoplasma is a chronic desease. There is no cure, all you can do is mask the symptoms.I was told that even when looking well the hens could infect any new birds I bought in.
I wanted to breed and sell stock so in the end I had to cull them all and start again. I was without hens for about 2 months and spent most of that time sterilizing the buildings.
I know where this desease came from. I bought from a breeder who doses his birds every day to keep them looking OK. Of course when they are sold the symptoms come back and the birds are ill.I was so angry that anyone could be that unscrupulous.I could not do to other people what this man had done.
It is hard but if you keep the hens alive you keep the desease thriving.Its several years since this happened and so far no more trouble.It can be spread by wild birds but I believe it is mostly spread by breeders of poultry who know they have it and don't have any conscience about selling sick stock.
I know this is not what you want to hear. I would give anything to tell you that its all going to get better.Only you can decide what you do now. Good luck

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#11185 - 02/12/04 11:16 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
D. Caveny Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1102
Loc: Arizona
The best thing to do is kill the flock, clean out the building, wash and disenfect the buildings and all the equipment, then leave idle for several months. After that buy ONLY clean birds, don't drag them around with other birds and keep out visitors.

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#11186 - 02/12/04 11:27 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Thank you, Croston.
I'm absolutely, totally, completely heartbroken. Been crying all day, can't see me stopping anytime soon.
I'd hoped that culling my roosters would at least buy me some time- as if nothing breeds here, nothing hatches, nothing leaves here alive...but that's pretty impractical.
I worked so hard to breed what I wanted, and my work has all been for nothing. These are my pets, dear little things some of them, and my lovely laying hens, and their replacements. Each bird has a name, a personality, a place in my family. It also affects a friend with a little girl who adores her chickens, we're still trying to track where it came from originally. If this adult can't handle it, imagine what it's doing to a little girl?
So very, very sad.
I know what I have to do, but can't see me ever having chickens after this. It's heartwrenching. There's nothing I won't "vet", nothing I won't do to try to save them, but I know in the end, I can't. It's chronic, and it's always going to be there.
I wish it were Laryngo (ILT), Newcastle, or some other disease that's reportable where the government would take my burden of a decision away from me, and do it themselves. But it isn't.
And the kicker is that all the other 'backyard" flocks in this province could be rife with the same diseases, and knowing nothing, perpetuate it. I can't fathom starting over...
I was pretty sure I knew what I had to do, thank you for listening, and sharing your experience.

A really soggy Raven

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#11187 - 02/12/04 11:53 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2792
Loc: Australia
Raven,

Please, please please, take into consideration the advice from a broad range of people, before making such a decision as wiping out your entire flock. These are more than just livestock animals to you, they are your pets. Would you be contemplating the same actions if it was a disease in your other pets (eg cats, dogs, etc}?

Take some time to research MG and MS some more. Obviously if it is estimated that the majority of small poultry flocks in the USA are positive for these diseases, then the majority of people out there ARE NOT DESTROYING all their flocks. Find out the reasons why. Find out how the commercial poultry breeders went about the process of erradicating these diseases from breeding stock. I am 100% certain they didn't go about this by killing off all their breeding stock, as there would be NOTHING LEFT!!!!

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#11188 - 02/13/04 12:50 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Unfortunately it WAS by culling that commercial flocks were cleared of this disease. The same is true of salmonela which took huge numbers of birds.Reserch shows there is no cure. It is easy to make excuses to keep your own birds alive and therefore the disease alive too. I know I did it for several months. Those hens were my pets but they were also my responsibilty.There are clean flocks around and I was not going to knowingly infect them and cause this heart break to others.
The majoraty of owners of infected flocks do not cull because they are making excuses and not facing the facts. It is very, very understandable but it is selfish.
If my cat or dog became ill with a disease that would infect every other cat or dog they met then yes I would definately have them culled.I would expect everyone to do the same.

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#11189 - 02/13/04 10:35 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2792
Loc: Australia
I totally agree with Caveny in that the easiest way to proceed would be to destroy this flock & start again. But is the immediate destroying of positive flocks the only available option for disease management? Well of course, no! Is the eradication of positive flocks, in every situation, always the most practical & effective method of disease control? Once again no!

These are questions that immediately come to mind:
With the destroying of flocks:
1: Are you able to find clean replacement stock & of the genetic quality that you seek?
2: What is the probability of reinfection to a new flock?
And if you keep positive birds:
3: How prominent are Mycoplasmas in your area & where would YOU be spreading Mycoplasmas to, especially if many other small flocks are positive? Certainly not to others that practise biosecurity.
4: Is there a possibility of disease containment (ie quarantine)?
5: If there is little possibility of disease containment then what does this imply about the likelihood of reinfection of a clean flock?
6: Are there positive birds in the flock showing resistance to disease? These resistant birds are valuable in breeding programs. Part of the problem with eradication programs is that if All surviving birds are eradicated in a flock, genetic resistance is not allowed to develop in a population.

And this leads to the next question that keeps coming to mind. Why are some people once severely burned by diseases relying totally on other breeders to do all the hard work in establishing clean & resistant breeding stock? Why arenít they doing this themselves? Where are you going to get clean stock from if everyone keeps killing their flocks and passing the buck on to someone else? And will the few clean flocks available provide RESISTANT breeding stock or are all the tested resistant birds being killed in the process of positive flock eradication?

Quote:
Unfortunately it WAS by culling that commercial flocks were cleared of this disease.
But you see, all commercial flocks are NOT clean of Mycoplasmas. The eradication programs worked well with commercial breeder flocks, but Mycoplasmas still occur in production birds (& Caveny mentioned previously it still occurs in breeding stock). Do all commercial operations immediately kill off production flocks when found positive to Mycoplasmas? No!!! If keeping flocks clean of Mycoplasmas is difficult for commercial operations, what are your chances of keeping your flocks clean? Now apply this to your own situation and take a realistic look at the likelihood of providing such strict biosecurity to your own flock. Remembering here, that you are literally putting all your eggs in one basket, relying totally on isolation as a defence mechanism. One slip up means destroying your flock & starting again.

Successful eradication of Mycoplasmas in breeding flocks was not achieved by the immediate killing of all breeding flocks found positive to MS & MG. Why would you do this when it is known that a high percentage of flocks are positive? You would be losing valuable breeding stock & eradicating a large percentage of the gene pool, including proven RESISTANT stock. Such eradication programs of well-established & wide spread diseases are not achieved overnight. It is my understanding that part of the eradication program entailed segregation (isolation) of breeding stock, treating breeder eggs, gradually eradicating infected parent stock & keeping the clean (isolated) offspring for the next breeding generation.

I do not see where the eradication of all small flocks found positive to Mycoplasmas will achieve anything productive, in situations where it is known the likelihood of reinfection is very high & when such a high percentage of the population is positive. Be realistic here. What are you achieving? Yes, if you know you have a high probability of successfully isolating your stock from Mycoplasmas, by all means, buy TESTED CLEAN stock & keep in strict quarantine. But if you are contemplating exhibiting any stock, well forget about relying on biosecurity alone, unless it is a one-way trip to the show, and forget about free ranging if there is the slightest possibility of contact with wild animals. The risks are just too high. There are no commercial flocks in Australia positive to virulent Newcastle Disease. So why has the government decision been made for the compulsory vaccination of all commercial flocks? What, isnít the quarantine practises enough?

Take this into consideration. The majority of small flocks are positive to Mycoplasmas. Are all of the birds in these flocks showing signs of disease? NO!!!! It is the misconception I keep reading that if an animal is positive to a pathogen or is positive to antigens, it must be diseased. WRONG!!! I canít remember now where I read this but I think it is that a large percentage of the human population carry the herpes virus responsible for the common cold sore. But it is only a minority of people that ever develop cold sores (disease). Now put this into a poultry perspective. Would you eradicate all individuals found positive to the virus or would you use the large percentage of individuals found resistant, in breeding programs? In a wild bird breeding program, would you prefer to have wild birds from the UK (found positive to antigens of the West Nile virus, therefore signs of resistance) or wild birds in the USA tested negative to West Nile virus antigens but found susceptible to the disease? The ideal would be breeding stock negative to pathogens & tested resistant to disease. But how many backyard breeders have the resources & money to do this sort of lab work?

In my situation, the reliance on biosecurity alone is such an unrealistic gamble on the health of my flock, that if I did this I would be totally irresponsible. It is much more sensible for me to prepare for the likelihood of exposure to common diseases in my area. I do this by selection/breeding of birds found to have resistance to low mortality diseases & vaccinating for the virulent diseases in my area. Here is a link to Brian Reederís website, where you can read of his endeavours to develop disease resistant lines (including Mycoplasmas):
http://www.longtailfowl.com/vacc.html
http://www.geocities.com/onagadori/LongtailInfopg15resistance.html

If anyone wants to read up on genetic disease resistance ďPoultry Breeding & GeneticsĒ has a lot of information on the topic.

I do know someone personally who is in the process of eradicating Infectious Coryza from his breeding stock. He is achieving this by setting up a quarantine area for infected parent stock & artificially incubating eggs, rearing young stock in another quarantine area. He doesnít buy birds anymore, never exhibits birds & lives on large enough acreage for a quarantine system to be successful.

Quote:
If my cat or dog became ill with a disease that would infect every other cat or dog they met then yes I would definately have them culled.I would expect everyone to do the same.
Why would you kill your cats, dogs over some disease that has such a low mortality rate? Why do you believe you would HAVE to kill your pet & why would you be letting a positive animal have contact with other animals? Ever thought of vaccines? Does your vet advocate killing all pets found positive to infectious diseases or advocate the vaccination of all animals? Wouldnít he/she be doing everything to save the life of an infectious animal?
Why arenít you upset that people DO NOT kill off all flocks found positive to Marekís Disease? Why arenít you upset that no one is doing anything about eradicating coccidia? Why people have been letting protozoa spread everywhere! I donít know, I hope Iím not the only one out there that doesnít immediately think about gathering a possie together & stringing someone elseís neck because OUR birds have contracted a disease. Unless someone has intentionally come in to my chook yard carrying an infectious disease with the sole intention of infecting my flock, the sole responsibility of my flockís health is ALL MINE!

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#11190 - 02/13/04 11:09 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Spur, Croston, Caveny, and Kazjaps, and anyone I may have missed..
Thank you all for your thoughtful and rational replies. Whether you agree or not.
I've spent, and will continue to spend, a considerable amount of time reading scientific studies till I understand this disease better.

While green to chickens, I'm not green to healthcare or veterinary medicine.
I should mention that I don't have ANY obviously sick birds- anything that had a sneeze, I culled. Chicks from affected breeders, I destroyed, as well as their parents.

The rest are asymptomatic, laying well, so there HAS to be some natural immunity there- there has to be! Some have never, ever- not in the most stressful of times- showed any signs of disease. (And we lived thru a hurricane in a place that gets none, for 5 days with no power or water, with 2 horses, a cow, 70 meat birds, and 20 odd pet birds- stress- what stress?) smile The trees came down on my car and missed my house by less than 6 inches, but I never lost a chicken or anything else...

They are breeding resistant flocks commercially- so- that tells me some birds DO become immune- and doesn't that mean they don't have the disease or the ability to pass it on?

The big thing is- no one can assure me that this didn't come from the feed we buy, the wild starlings that come in thousands on their twice yearly migration- enveloping my land in a black mass as they sweep through. They can't tell me the meat birds I buy and raise every spring from the Co-op aren't affected. Or my replacement pullets. It's a really big unknown.

I'm not holding onto false hope- but I have 6 days till the next tests come back, to sit and do nothing, or to be pro-active. I choose pro-active...right or wrong- there is not another flock of chickens anywhere near me, for miles, so I see little harm in trying. Wild birds already have it, so they aren't really a consideration.

Everyone- every single bird I own, got a large IM shot of Tylosine, and I will continue it till Wednesday. They get another in their food and yet another in their water- what the heck, I had the stuff onhand anyway...if it doesn't work- well, I tried.
I'll offer another for necropsy next week. Even if that bird should come back "clean"- I'll NEVER, EVER breed, give away, or let another bird leave my property alive, EVER again. Sell no eggs, nor meat birds. I've killed my roosters- they can't reproduce thru parthenogenisis... (was that the right term?) I have the available land, buildings, time and medication to at least TRY. These are not commercial birds in a big operation- these are 38 pets, loved, and named.
I didn't shoot my arabian horse when she broke her leg, she's now 8 and has never been unsound. I owe my chickens no less...

I also do know it likely won't help- but, I have to try. That's not false hope, the vets can't give me definative answers as to where this came from, and till they do, I have to wait, and treat it. and read everything I can get my hands on...
So if that makes me an irresponsible owner- at least know that they will never leave my farm alive, or infect another bird outside my 10 acres. I'm sorry- I HAVE to try...
Roast me now, if you must! Lightly braised would be nice...lol.
Thanks again,
Raven

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#11191 - 02/13/04 12:49 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
R. Okimoto Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 1498
Loc: Arkansas
Mycoplasma are bacteria that do not have cell walls.

MG and MS are usually not fatal and the vast majority of chicken show flocks are infected with one or the other or both. They can leave your birds open to other infections, and it does decrease production. Your birds are probably dying of a secondary infection of some other disease.

It gets transmitted through the egg, so you just can't save eggs, depopulate, and start over. Just one infected chick will reinfect the whole batch. We have cleaned up birds using Baytril, but I don't think that you can get it for poultry anymore. Unless you can treat the birds and move them to clean facilities you will just reinfect them again after you stop the antibiotic treatment.

The best treatment seems to be what Caveny suggested. Depopulate, disinfect, and leave the coop empty for a while before you bring clean birds back in.

If you ask most of the small hatcheries about mycoplasma they will either admit to having it, or say that they don't know. If they claim that they don't know, they just don't test. NPIP doesn't require mycoplasma testing.

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#11192 - 02/13/04 01:37 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello. I am finding this thread of posts very distressing and am hoping someone can answer a few questions for me. Here is my situation: in October I bought two turkey poults from a friend who got them from a local auction. One poult was fine and thrived - the other fell ill after a week and became paralized. He finally died and I had him necropsied but the results showed nothing abnormal. I went back to my friend and got another poult. At this time she had several ill birds and one died. She had it necropsied and the results showed mycoplasma. (she told me this after I bought the second poult) The vet who did the necropsy on her bird (who works for the state poultry department) told her to treat her birds and they will be fine. A few days after I got the second poult he showed signs of illness - swollen sinuses, clear discharge, coughing and sneezing. I treated him (and all the chickens he was housed with) with Tylan in the water and it cleared right up and I hadn't given it another thought until reading these posts. So my questions are - are there different stains of mycoplasma? Are my birds in the same situation as Raven's? If I send fertile eggs to someone will the peeps that hatch be infected? My birds are my pets and I love them very much. They appear healthy in every way. They are laying well. I am very shocked that this vet didn't say a word about the seriousness of this disease. If I hadn't read this post I would still be totally in the dark about all this.

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#11193 - 02/13/04 02:06 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
R. Okimoto Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 1498
Loc: Arkansas
Mycoplasma has a high mortality in turkeys, but not in chickens. I can't remember, but I think MG is found in both chickens and turkeys. I really can't remember, but at least one of the two infects both.

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#11194 - 02/13/04 02:12 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Thank you, Dr. Okimoto. As ever- the voice of reason and science.
If I lose these birds- I'm out of poultry, period. They are pets, not livestock. (in my case)

I've kept no eggs, will do no hatching-- I understand "it's all or nothing", and there's the rub-- there are chicks here I'm simply not willing to kill. (yet) If my dog has a disease, I try to treat it, not destroy him.

This isn't a virus- it's a "weird" bacterium, having properties of both virus and bacteria- but still it's a bacteria, right? (Correct me if I'm wrong here?)
Doesn't that mean we should have the ability to treat it chemically, to a certain extent? It's not like Feline Leukemia, if it were it would be a no-brainer-- a virus we cannot cure or control.

I know "intellectually" that you, Croston, spur, Caveny, and others are right. I do. Just tell that to my emotions... this is really hard for the uninitiated, unprepared. I only found out yesterday- so there's still a huge amount for my little mind to take in frown

We do not have an NPIP program in this province of Canada that I'm aware of- but I didn't realize mycoplasma testing wasn't required in the US states where you do have these programs. That surprises me.

I won't repopulate because-- a) there's probably not a breeder in this province who does not have this problem, & b) there's no way in Hell I'm going thru the heartache twice. I'm done if this doesn't work.

But now, for the next 5 days while waiting for Guelph to give me a definative 2nd answer, I wait, and hope. I can give them these 5 days, knowing I did at least "something", even if it's futile.
Thanks again, everyone.
Raven

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#11195 - 02/13/04 03:39 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I read off of a university web site that the estimates are that 80% of backyard flocks are mycoplama positive. Now I know a lot of backyard chicken owners are like me. I only purchase hatching eggs or day old chicks (never adult birds). There are no other chicken farms super close to me. I don't go to shows or sales. I have no friends who visit that own chickens. I've never had a serious disease outbreak of anything, but I do have birds that sneeze from time to time with no other symptoms. My birds free range during the summer months. I don't sell any live birds to anyone. I have wild birds all over....starlings, barn swallows in the barns that don't have chickens, house sparrows, etc.

I would not be at all surprised if my flock were mycoplasma positive. Would I cull? Probably not. Why? I think the chance of disinfecting my buildings and dirt runs (how do you disinfect OLD OLD OLD buildings with wood siding and cracks and crevices galore?) and keeping my birds totally unexposed to wild birds is ZERO. So the chance of reinfection is VERY high. I would cull any symptomatic birds.

Why kill asymptomatic birds if a new flock will become just as easily reinfected?

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#11196 - 02/13/04 03:58 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
R. Okimoto Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 1498
Loc: Arkansas
Mycoplasma is a weird bacteria that has developed a method to avoid the animals immune system. Other pathogens like the common cold are detected and removed, but mycoplasma seems to just keep on infecting the host at a sub lethal level. It is thought that it may have immune suppression activity and that this may be the reason that infected birds can develop other diseases more easily.

You can treat it with powerful antibiotics. We used Baytril, but this was 5 or 6 years ago. In the US they do not use Baytril on poultry anymore. It is a special antibiotic (a flouroquinoline) that they do not want resistance to develop. We tried another flouroquinoline (Saraflox?), but it didn't clear the mycoplasma. Baytril is being reserved for human use and I think that vets can still use it on pets. Unless you can isolate your birds on clean facilities for a while (I don't know how long this is) They will just get reinfected after you stop the antibiotics.

Once you clear the infection it might be transmitted by wild birds, but as long as you don't let people with fresh poultry manure on their boots on your property you have a good chance of staying clean. It is probably transmitted by bird droppings and body fluids.

A lot of people do it, but it isn't wise to mix chickens and turkeys. Turkeys seem to be susceptible to chicken diseases. They will die from black head while a chicken can survive, and mycoplasma can kill turkeys. I'd bet that most backyard flocks are mycoplasma positive, esspecially if you have obtained birds from various sources like swap meets and from neighbors.

When I was bringing in Junglefowl accessions and various odd chickens every one of them had one or the other or both MS and MG. MS was the most common.

Your chickens are probably going to be alright, but your turkeys will probably have a problem.

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#11197 - 02/13/04 04:42 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Ooh- you guys write too fast for me to keep up with everyone! By the time I reply- someone's already replied twice-- thank you all.

Lorif1- If I remember correctly- Mycoplasma Synovaie does cause more serious troubles in turkeys.
Go to the Merck Veterinary manual online to read about it--

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/203505.htm

Kazjaps- again- thank you.
This is what bugs me: IF there are disease-resistant flocks out there- they had to be made, right?
Survival of species means things need to adapt. Some flocks have developed if not immunity, then resistance, correct?

Most of my birds show NO SYMPTOMS. (We're talking 40 birds, give or take.)
There has never been a death- not one. Except to predation, and that doesn't count.

So I thought that meant they were resistant or immune after the first exposure, not carriers!

I'm sure there are chickens in my flock who will NEVER show any hint of disease.
If they had offspring, and their offspring showed no hint of disease, down for several generations--even if the blood test said they were positive as being exposed to Mycoplasma- isn't that what goes into creating a resistant strain of animal? What about If they had it and fought it off, does that work?
Am I close?

Please, people- forgive me if this is a hot potato issue. I understand how different people have extremely valid arguments. But right now it's affecting ME- and I have the world wide web to ask questions of. So, I ask... smile and thankfully accept ALL answers.

It is VERY serious to me, gravely so- and I don't embark on treatment except to contain and save MY PETS.(Though hypothetically, we could eat one if needed...)
-Not to breed. There are only hens left.
-They will all die here.
-I have 10 acres for them to run on, if they survive the winter.
-They will continue to lay eggs and feed our family. There is no risk to human health, I understand...
-There are no other chickens within miles.
-They can be contained.
-I have enough medication to do this flock several times over, I have the time, and the no-how.
-They will have quality of life and perform their purpose in life, scratching at bugs in the sunshine, without roosters.

Is it really so wrong to attempt this?

If it's out there in our environment- the wild birds will re-infect a new clean flock. That seems pointless to me...just heartbreak for the same results.

Thank you all so much- your imput is invaluable!
cheers,
Raven

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#11198 - 02/13/04 04:52 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Again- thank you, Dr. Okimoto. You explained in simpler terms EXACTLY what I wanted to know in my above posts.

If they stay alive- I'll perpetuate this disease, biosecurity or not. Not great odds is it?
Thank you again,
Raven

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#11199 - 02/13/04 06:28 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm so sorry you are going through this Raven, through no fault of your own. I've been doing a little research on mycoplasma since reading this thread; very scary, very interesting. I would like to ask a question of the experienced poultry folks who have kindly provided help on this matter. Since these birds are pets, infected yes, but pets nonetheless, and since she will not breed or sell them, and will contain them within her property, is there any reason she should not keep them alive? I ask this sincerely. She loves them, and is obviously ethically minded to the point she has considered killing them all. If there were even a remote possibility of contagion from HER birds, the answer would be clear. But, under her specific circumstances, it seems she's doing no harm to anyone, including her chickens. They have it, it's incurable, and apparently, they can live with it. So, with these thoughts in mind, I'm inclined to think it's o.k. if she keeps her birds. In the end, Raven, it's your call. I wish you much good luck and peace of mind.

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#11200 - 02/13/04 07:28 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Thank you, mare.
I do have a place to separate them, the perfect place. If I were to try that route...

Biosecurity? You have to go thru two overly friendly horses, and a hefty electric fence twice, to get where I'm considering moving them. No one gets in there, it's large and sunny and most importantly- no fowl has ever lived there, it's a new addition on the other side of the barn, separated by a horse barn.

Thankfully, I have the luxury of some time, to consider this...
Not deluding myself, just still thinking it all out.
cheers,
Raven

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#11201 - 02/14/04 12:09 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
R. Okimoto Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 1498
Loc: Arkansas
MS and MG are not a dire threat to Poultry. It is a threat to commercial operations because egg production and growth rate are compromized and it would cut into their profits.

Several universities have nearly all their research lines infected with MS. I know of two. For some odd reason Arkansas is still clean. I had to do back flips to clean up birds and bring them onto the facilities.

If you have the mycoplasma in your chickens that will kill turkeys, you shouldn't raise turkeys. You can still raise chickens.

Mycoplasma will open your flock to be more easily infected with other diseases. As long as you are careful you won't bring these diseases onto your farm.

If I had Mycoplasma in my flock I'd just check with your local extension agent to see what diseases are common in your area and vaccinate your birds for the diseases that you can. I wouldn't kill them. I'm pretty sure that the show lines that I used to raise as a student were probably mycoplasma positive, but everyone's birds were.

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#11202 - 02/14/04 06:38 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I went through the same crap about MS and MG that you are going through. The best anitbiotic I tried was LA-200 (.5 cc intro. musc.) It knocked the symtoms down the quickest. Stress seems to make it rear its ugly head. None died from this. I have read that 70% of all backyard flocks will test positive for one if not both, and 90% of all commercial flocks would test the same. Mine tested positive for MS only. I purchased my birds 11 months ago from a VERY well known hatchery. I've had no other chickens before them, and no other chickens have ever been brought in after them. That leaves 2 ways they contracted this. Either from wild birds, or they hatched out with it! Either way means they are carriers for life. You can't go around testing or culling every wild bird you see. Unless you are raising chickens for more than just eggs, why cull them? I'd never let them leave the property. They remain healthy if they are well cared for and not stressed out, they lay great and are fun to have around. Seems to me that if you have chickens you are sure to run into this at some point. You could have chickens that carry this and never know it!

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#11203 - 02/14/04 09:04 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Again- thank you all so much!

I cannot thank you all enough. Whether you agree or whether you don't- your imput has been so important, all of you. You've given me a "Big Picture", a way to weigh out all the pros and cons on the subject.
To try to have an "informed" opinion, and with such, try to do what's right, by the animals I care for.

This may not be hopeless afterall.
I believe "the old hands", whose opinions I asked for. The scientists, hobbiests, and teachers out there with such experience, you've given me a "crash course" in poultry management.

I don't think this is going to end, yet. There are still options to be explored.
Again, I have the luxury of some time, to think everything out.

I thank you all, for participating in this discussion. You have no idea how important your opinions have been...I will let you know how things go.
Cheers,
Raven

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#11204 - 02/15/04 12:59 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Sally Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 08/15/03
Posts: 686
Loc: Florida
Hi Raven,
It has taken me most of an hour or more to read and re-read this post....The magnitude of it dumbfounds me. I have bought and sold poultry for years. I have never purchased any at auction but you really never know just where they come from initially. We sell hundreds of chicks at the feed store in the spring and fall. I hatch chicks year around from my own flock and sell them at the feed store too.
I have had health problems from time to time with them but usually it was manageable. Once I had a bout with gapeworms (brought in with outside birds), and I believe my flock went through a round of fowlpox. In the case of the pox it was more of an annoyance than anything, all got well and I was told they would be immune from then on without vaccinating. As to the gapeworms, well, once I was made aware of what it probably was by the symtoms, I treated them all and had no further losses. I have never, and don't know anyone who has, ever tested their birds for MG or MS. I wouldn't know what to look for, even through all the posts here before mine. If it is a runny nose or cough, weepy eyes or sneezing, any and all of these things are symptomatic of many things possible in Florida.
I have recently purchased Peafowl from Mousori. To be prudent (and extremely cautious) I have not had these birds within several hundred feet of any existing birds on my property. Not because I think they will get sick from mine, if I was worried about that I wouldn't have mortgaged my husband for them laugh (tee hee). I did it to allow them to get acustomed to our
weather water,bacteria due to the hot climate and short winters, nothing really dies off.)
I know that if I was in your situation I would quit selling my birds, but, I would NEVER kill them. I wouldn't even quit breeding them. My favorite birds are my roosters. I may not hatch many eggs but I wouldn't kill my stock. I am so sure some out there may think that is selfish and irresponsible but that is the way I stand. I know the board is split on this, and my view is NOT sentimental completely, I too believe that what affects some will pass over and not affect others. We live with this every day with the threat of EPM in horses. We have had 20 horses stabled together and 1 horse contracts it and no others are affected at all. The same for West Nile Virus etc. PLEASE exhaust all forms of research and avenues of choice before you destroy your bird-buds. Truly my prayers are with you. It seems you have already had way more than your share of grief. I pray the rest of your decisions are happy and to your benefit.
Sally
_________________________
sallyDIABLO

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#11205 - 02/15/04 03:17 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Raven - if you click this link and then scroll all the way to the bottom of the page it says that the NPIP has active control programs for three types of mycoplasma. Perhaps you could contact them for some more info? Not sure if they will be able to help you or not but it might be worth a try? I think I'm going to contact them too in my state. Good luck!!

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/npip/

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#11206 - 02/16/04 08:38 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, it's 2.30am and my eyes are hanging out, but I had to read all of these posts, and I must say, if this was a debate, the 'don't kill' team has won by a mile!! There seems to me to be no question that in this particular case, given all the circumstnaces, there is no need whatsoever to cull 'healthy' birds. Who exactly are they likely to infect? Especially given that apparently 70% of all the othe birds out there also have it. Dear Raven, you have had the most unbearable burden put on you, and I pray that you have found much comfort and the voice of reason from all these wonderful people here at the Coop. All will be well, no matter what the results are - please listen to all the encouragement you have been given. My prayeres are with you tonight.

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#11207 - 02/16/04 11:38 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Thank you, Sally, lorif, Broody Hen, and everyone else who's taken time to read and respond to this problem. I'd never had a PM before, and now I'm swamped! Most people either agree with D.Caveny, or don't. LOL. That's a broad range of people...

Today is day 4 of treatment. Every bird in the laying house is clean as a whistle- for now.
If I don't move them, they'll surely re-infect, I know.
Having had the benefit of a great many intelligent people talking and posting to me has been great. Most agree that I should try to save my flock, if only to enjoy them myself for the rest of their natural lives. I can live with that... smile

My hopes for super-dark egg layers has been dashed with the loss of my Marans rooster. Today I collected some gorgeous eggs, and smiled, knowing every single one of them was probably fertile,he was a great rooster, and he gave me all pullets. 3 will be laying shortly. They were born of affected parents, but have never sneezed themselves.
I will not kill them. Perhaps in the spring if this continues to plague me I'll feel differently, but today they are all safe.

My reasoning, aside from being purely selfish, is that maybe, somewhere in this mess, I'll find the answer. Perhaps those chicks will provide me with a generation of resistant chickens. If nothing else, at least I have a few replacements for my older sex-links- these gals pump out eggs regardless of stress, cold, molt, anything. They are machines, and nice sweet ladies besides.

I owe them for providing for our family under such bad conditions.

And of course, there's my little Buff Brahmas X Mille Fleur D'uccles who are the friendliest, most talkative little things. When you open the door and 5 chicks fly up to roost on your shoulder "just because they love you", what can you do but fight for them?
I have to- they are so brave and plucky. If I gave them this disease by breeding their mother- I'm responsible for their lives. I'm not taking that responsibility lightly.

My choice isn't for everyone, that's for sure. But in my case, where I won't be breeding, showing, giving away birds or hatching eggs, and there's no other poultry around- this makes sense to me.
My sister contacted me last night, a professional in veterinary medicine who worked on the poultry research farm at the Ag. College, and had Mycoplasma Pneumoniae (not related to what we're discussing) last year. She says Mycoplasmas are EVERYWHERE, they were in every single farm she worked. She says don't kill them, it's futile. That's good enough for me...
This story, is to be continued...
Cheers,
Raven

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#11208 - 02/16/04 04:04 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Raven - ok just one more post on this and then I'll leave you be! wink I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is a third year vet student at U of Penn, specializing in farm animal health. She said the same thing as your sister - mycoplasma is everywhere and you really can't avoid it. She said the only problem with having it in your flock is it will weaken your birds if they are under stress, opening them up to secondary infections. She said if you have known mycoplasma in your flock you just need to learn to keep a very close eye on them and treat them for any infections or illness they develop right away. But if they are well taken care of, in a clean enviroment with good food and are wormed regularly they should live long, happy, normal lives and be just fine. It's sad now that you have lost your roosters frown , but at least now your hens can be spared. Good luck and please keep us posted on how things are going! Take care!

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#11209 - 02/17/04 06:05 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Spotted Crow Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 855
Loc: Massachusetts
Here's a stupid question, Raven, what made you have them tested in the first place?

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#11210 - 02/17/04 09:00 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Hi Spotted Crow-
Not a stupid question at all.

I and a friend's flock, have been battling this very "non-specific" disease since the fall, when I bought a rooster from a show. He developed symptoms of "a cold" reasonably quickly- sneezing, eyes running, and coughing, rattling when he coughed. He did recover, but got sick again a few mnoths ago.
I noticed his chicks had the same symptoms when they were a few days old, just sneezing usually. They recovered, and it didn't kill anything.

Now, I know my flock WELL. Every bird, every noise they make. Since then, slowly, one bird at a time, someone in my flock would be sneezing. After reading and asking questions, it was pretty evident what it was, we just weren't 100% sure where it came from. When the chicks were all born with some degree respiratory symptoms, I was pretty sure what I was dealing with, but not where it came from or how to get rid of it...
I raise broilers enough for our family every year (before I got my laying hens) and a few always had the same or similar problems. No deaths- but the roosters especially would rattle and gurgle as they were getting close to slaughter age. After lots of calls to the veterinary college and stuff, we decided to test-- last week I had that rooster euthanized and necropsied. He came back positive for both Mycoplasma Galliceptum, and Mycoplasma Synovaie. My friend had her birds tested at the same time, her's were also positive. My next door neighbours chickens free ranged with mine all fall, so they are also infected.
I ruled out everything else. Not Mareks, not Newcastle, not Infectious laryngotracheitis (where we would legally have to kill EVERY SINGLE bird.)Not Infectious sinusitis or bronchitis.

It's this. It's here. It's a big pain in the butt because I don't want sick stock, but I also don't want to kill off my chickens. Not if there's a chance of re-infection- and with free-ranging chickens next door who are positive- it would happen. I can't ask my neighbour to kill his chickens, so I have to deal with this the best way I can.
I'm waiting for a second opinion from Quelph Ont. that should be in Wednesday or Thursday. They will also recommend what I should do. Use of Oxine- which I can't find, Strict bio-security, cleaning out the houses and leaving them empty, and killing every bird would be the QUICKEST fix. I culled my roosters last week, to stop breeding.
But it really won't help if a new flock would get it- I'm not willing to coop my birds forever, they work here, free-ranging eats lots of bugs, laying eggs, we have some we "could" eat potentially... There's no health risk to eating affected eggs or chickens to my knowledge. So I'm going to deal with it this way.

Not breed. Not show. Not sell eggs. Not have roosters to make any more positive chicks. Not sell my meat birds. Lots of NOTS, but I love these guys, all are pets and good at what they do. The layers are awesome, never giving me a sick looking egg- no banding or mishapen eggs. They have always remained healthy- which could mean they are carriers who don't show symptoms. Once infected, they are carriers for life.

If you have sneezing, runny eyes, crusty noses, no deaths, but someone always "not quite right"- chances are it's there, too. I'm learning it's damn near everywhere...
Yes, it can be controlled- after 5 days of IM injections, my chickens are all 100%. But in a week or a month, someone will start again. It'll be a vicious cycle of treatment for secondary infections, followed by healthy birds, followed again by someone sneezing. But for me in this circumstance- I can look after them for their natural lives,not worrying about transmitting it, as no one will get in or out to see my birds. There are no other poultry for miles...
And- perhaps these chicks will never show another symptom, so far- though they've been thru a cold hard winter- his chicks are fine. They aren't immune, just don't have symptoms...
Hope that helps, and thanks!

Raven

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#11211 - 02/17/04 02:50 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Raven, type in oxine under search - above. It'll take you to a discussion I had with Daphne, and she provides the website for the information and ordering. Good luck!

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#11212 - 02/17/04 03:17 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Forgot to mention, our discussion is in Waterfowl,(how are your birds taking to winter), but for quick access here's the site:
www.shagbarkbantams.com/oxine.htm
Good luck!

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#11213 - 02/18/04 09:12 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Thanks mare and others!
Boy, I understand Croston's words about HATING to go into the coop, for fear of hearing the dreaded sneeze. Oh, isn't she EVER right!
I hold my breath every morning, listening...
And do I EVER understand those who say "all or nothing"- cull all and start again.
It's sure occured to me...but I NEED my laying hens!
Can't replace them, even stock bought in the spring won't lay till Nov or Dec. and we need those 6 or 7 or 15 eggs a day.
If it would just warm up- just for a few days, I'd get all the asymptomatic birds out of that coop, do a reverse quarantine and put all the healthy ones in one place, and watch for more signs.
Despite 5 days of i/m antibiotics, one of my laying hens continues to sneeze.
She also is one big pet, coming out and running around in the sun and snow, dusting in the horses stalls. She's certainly "healthy" for an unhealthy bird. Argh.
And there's 3 ravens (hence my name) taken up residence here in the trees by the barn. They think they are chickens, very friendly and just "one of the girls", lol. They keep hawks away, so I tolerate them in the yard. Could they be spreading this?
Well, enough for now, the saga continues.
Cheers,
Raven

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#11214 - 02/26/04 04:49 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Spotted Crow Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 855
Loc: Massachusetts
Unless your friendly neighbourhood ravens are in with your girls, I don't think that they would be spreading it. They're not usually friendly with chickens. My crows have a disappeared since I got my girls.(bummer) Keep us posted.

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#11215 - 02/26/04 06:37 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


The way wild bird populations spread disease to your flock, spottedcrow, isn't by visiting with them and chumming around with them.

Wild birds spread diseases by dropping in to eat some spilled grains and pooping there where your chickens are and leaving their feather dander around.

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#11216 - 02/26/04 10:13 AM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what?
Raven Offline
Chicken

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Canada
Thanks, Leee- that's exactly it.
We have a pretty large wild bird population, and they know where the free meals are. They'll go thru the litter and manure I've dumped, and of course when the chickens go out, they scratch thru that, too.
We're so snowed in, I can't dump the manure far enough away to prevent cross contamination...

To make matters worse- my rooster's tests came back positive for Newcastle disease- I'm assuming not a virulent strain, as nothing has died or even shown signs other than respiratory symptoms, never more than one or 2 at the same time. I thought he was vaccinated for it...
They haven't sent the cavalry in to destroy my flock, or even suggested it, so I'm not sure whether this is somewhat "normal" or not...
cheers,
Raven

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#102533 - 02/27/12 11:33 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what? [Re: Raven]
kathyinmo Offline
New Egg

Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 2
Loc: Missouri
I know this is an old thread. But, I am researching for a friend. Could you tell me the outcome of your experience, please.

Thank you.

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#102534 - 02/28/12 03:10 PM Re: My chickens have Mycoplasma G and S, now what? [Re: kathyinmo]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3751
Loc: Denmark
Welcome to the coop. According to the member list, this member has not logged on in the past 8 years. It is not sure you will get an answer. Do not hold your breath.

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#105914 - 10/08/12 03:32 PM MG [Re: KazJaps]
ChickenBittie Offline
New Egg

Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: KazJaps
I totally agree with Caveny in that the easiest way to proceed would be to destroy this flock & start again. But is the immediate destroying of positive flocks the only available option for disease management? Well of course, no! Is the eradication of positive flocks, in every situation, always the most practical & effective method of disease control? Once again no!

These are questions that immediately come to mind:
With the destroying of flocks:
1: Are you able to find clean replacement stock & of the genetic quality that you seek?
2: What is the probability of reinfection to a new flock?
And if you keep positive birds:
3: How prominent are Mycoplasmas in your area & where would YOU be spreading Mycoplasmas to, especially if many other small flocks are positive? Certainly not to others that practise biosecurity.
4: Is there a possibility of disease containment (ie quarantine)?
5: If there is little possibility of disease containment then what does this imply about the likelihood of reinfection of a clean flock?
6: Are there positive birds in the flock showing resistance to disease? These resistant birds are valuable in breeding programs. Part of the problem with eradication programs is that if All surviving birds are eradicated in a flock, genetic resistance is not allowed to develop in a population.

And this leads to the next question that keeps coming to mind. Why are some people once severely burned by diseases relying totally on other breeders to do all the hard work in establishing clean & resistant breeding stock? Why arenít they doing this themselves? Where are you going to get clean stock from if everyone keeps killing their flocks and passing the buck on to someone else? And will the few clean flocks available provide RESISTANT breeding stock or are all the tested resistant birds being killed in the process of positive flock eradication?

Quote:
Unfortunately it WAS by culling that commercial flocks were cleared of this disease.
But you see, all commercial flocks are NOT clean of Mycoplasmas. The eradication programs worked well with commercial breeder flocks, but Mycoplasmas still occur in production birds (& Caveny mentioned previously it still occurs in breeding stock). Do all commercial operations immediately kill off production flocks when found positive to Mycoplasmas? No!!! If keeping flocks clean of Mycoplasmas is difficult for commercial operations, what are your chances of keeping your flocks clean? Now apply this to your own situation and take a realistic look at the likelihood of providing such strict biosecurity to your own flock. Remembering here, that you are literally putting all your eggs in one basket, relying totally on isolation as a defence mechanism. One slip up means destroying your flock & starting again.

Successful eradication of Mycoplasmas in breeding flocks was not achieved by the immediate killing of all breeding flocks found positive to MS & MG. Why would you do this when it is known that a high percentage of flocks are positive? You would be losing valuable breeding stock & eradicating a large percentage of the gene pool, including proven RESISTANT stock. Such eradication programs of well-established & wide spread diseases are not achieved overnight. It is my understanding that part of the eradication program entailed segregation (isolation) of breeding stock, treating breeder eggs, gradually eradicating infected parent stock & keeping the clean (isolated) offspring for the next breeding generation.

I do not see where the eradication of all small flocks found positive to Mycoplasmas will achieve anything productive, in situations where it is known the likelihood of reinfection is very high & when such a high percentage of the population is positive. Be realistic here. What are you achieving? Yes, if you know you have a high probability of successfully isolating your stock from Mycoplasmas, by all means, buy TESTED CLEAN stock & keep in strict quarantine. But if you are contemplating exhibiting any stock, well forget about relying on biosecurity alone, unless it is a one-way trip to the show, and forget about free ranging if there is the slightest possibility of contact with wild animals. The risks are just too high. There are no commercial flocks in Australia positive to virulent Newcastle Disease. So why has the government decision been made for the compulsory vaccination of all commercial flocks? What, isnít the quarantine practises enough?

Take this into consideration. The majority of small flocks are positive to Mycoplasmas. Are all of the birds in these flocks showing signs of disease? NO!!!! It is the misconception I keep reading that if an animal is positive to a pathogen or is positive to antigens, it must be diseased. WRONG!!! I canít remember now where I read this but I think it is that a large percentage of the human population carry the herpes virus responsible for the common cold sore. But it is only a minority of people that ever develop cold sores (disease). Now put this into a poultry perspective. Would you eradicate all individuals found positive to the virus or would you use the large percentage of individuals found resistant, in breeding programs? In a wild bird breeding program, would you prefer to have wild birds from the UK (found positive to antigens of the West Nile virus, therefore signs of resistance) or wild birds in the USA tested negative to West Nile virus antigens but found susceptible to the disease? The ideal would be breeding stock negative to pathogens & tested resistant to disease. But how many backyard breeders have the resources & money to do this sort of lab work?

In my situation, the reliance on biosecurity alone is such an unrealistic gamble on the health of my flock, that if I did this I would be totally irresponsible. It is much more sensible for me to prepare for the likelihood of exposure to common diseases in my area. I do this by selection/breeding of birds found to have resistance to low mortality diseases & vaccinating for the virulent diseases in my area. Here is a link to Brian Reederís website, where you can read of his endeavours to develop disease resistant lines (including Mycoplasmas):
http://www.longtailfowl.com/vacc.html
http://www.geocities.com/onagadori/LongtailInfopg15resistance.html

If anyone wants to read up on genetic disease resistance ďPoultry Breeding & GeneticsĒ has a lot of information on the topic.

I do know someone personally who is in the process of eradicating Infectious Coryza from his breeding stock. He is achieving this by setting up a quarantine area for infected parent stock & artificially incubating eggs, rearing young stock in another quarantine area. He doesnít buy birds anymore, never exhibits birds & lives on large enough acreage for a quarantine system to be successful.

Quote:
If my cat or dog became ill with a disease that would infect every other cat or dog they met then yes I would definately have them culled.I would expect everyone to do the same.
Why would you kill your cats, dogs over some disease that has such a low mortality rate? Why do you believe you would HAVE to kill your pet & why would you be letting a positive animal have contact with other animals? Ever thought of vaccines? Does your vet advocate killing all pets found positive to infectious diseases or advocate the vaccination of all animals? Wouldnít he/she be doing everything to save the life of an infectious animal?
Why arenít you upset that people DO NOT kill off all flocks found positive to Marekís Disease? Why arenít you upset that no one is doing anything about eradicating coccidia? Why people have been letting protozoa spread everywhere! I donít know, I hope Iím not the only one out there that doesnít immediately think about gathering a possie together & stringing someone elseís neck because OUR birds have contracted a disease. Unless someone has intentionally come in to my chook yard carrying an infectious disease with the sole intention of infecting my flock, the sole responsibility of my flockís health is ALL MINE!





So what would your recommendation be to eradicate some that show symptoms even though they have been treated with tylosin and tetracycline and take the rest that showed no symptoms and try to breed it out with the next gen. and would you vaccinate the next gen. against it to try to eradicate the virus that way.Small farms alot of times are caught in between the commercial end and the smallest dose vaccines are 1000 doses,there would almost certainly be away to breed it out for the simple reason is the recommended vacc. is @ 9wks its a live virus now I understand that it is a lower exposure non the less they have been exposed no antibiotics 5 days before or 3 wks after vaccine....Why? so they can build anti-bodies the strong live and the week dont..If the Poultry industry would help the small farm this would not be a problem eradication of entire flocks would be a great loss to the farmer financially and to the breed itself this is why we have birds on the Critical and Threatened List... would just like to here your take on it and anyone else that may have some small farm knowledge...because MG is everywhere!!!

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