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#116447 - 02/16/17 04:33 PM Re: Duckwing goes red [Re: Wieslaw]
Wieslaw Online   content
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I have not read it yet, but I scrolled it totally down checking for Db, and watching the pictures. The year is 1963. I have not noticed a single mention on Db in any context.

My suspicion is that the author was NOT AWARE about the existence of Db and MAY HAVE CONFUSED IT WITH GR(= Co). Some pictures resemble more the action of Db(lack of hackle stripes) than Co.

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#116448 - 02/16/17 08:03 PM Re: Duckwing goes red [Re: Wieslaw]
KazJaps Offline
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Registered: 08/30/02
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You are right, Db was certainly not formally described by 1963 (Db extracted from Fayoumi by Moore & Smyth, 1972). But the e+ Gr/Gr chick down is nothing like Db/Db. Mind you, Gr/Gr chick down is not melanised like typical e+ or eb buff columbian chicks either, but Smyth says e+ or eb Co/Co chick down can vary from cinnamon through to melanised tinged. I haven't come across in literature why this Co chick down variation (only that additional adult plumage melanising mutations may accentuate this Co melanised chick down).

Maybe there are multiple Co locus mutation alleles?

Note too that there is variation in hackle striping even without eumelanin restrictors present. Eg the difference between e+ Brown Leghorns (striped both genders) & e+ BBRed OEG (non-striped males). Brumbaugh & Hollander used Red Junglefowl as their wild-type tester line, the RJF males non-striped hackles, RJF females striped necks.

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#116449 - 02/17/17 04:25 AM Re: Duckwing goes red [Re: KazJaps]
Wieslaw Online   content
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Originally Posted By: KazJaps
You are right, Db was certainly not formally described by 1963 (Db extracted from Fayoumi by Moore & Smyth, 1972). But the e+ Gr/Gr chick down is nothing like Db/Db. Mind you, Gr/Gr chick down is not melanised like typical e+ or eb buff columbian chicks either, but Smyth says e+ or eb Co/Co chick down can vary from cinnamon through to melanised tinged. I haven't come across in literature why this Co chick down variation (only that additional adult plumage melanising mutations may accentuate this Co melanised chick down).

Maybe there are multiple Co locus mutation alleles?

Note too that there is variation in hackle striping even without eumelanin restrictors present. Eg the difference between e+ Brown Leghorns (striped both genders) & e+ BBRed OEG (non-striped males). Brumbaugh & Hollander used Red Junglefowl as their wild-type tester line, the RJF males non-striped hackles, RJF females striped necks.


These are of course some strong arguments. I can add, that there is no reason why there can't be more alleles for Db, Pg or whatever.

The chick down on light brahmas is intriguing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lv5P5MAOiA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF0Surt6wYQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB7UKcNIoA0

And here is the new world record
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc052HsBf1k







Edited by Wieslaw (02/17/17 04:41 AM)
Edit Reason: added some links

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#116457 - 02/20/17 04:56 AM Re: Duckwing goes red [Re: Wieslaw]
Wieslaw Online   content
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Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3675
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In Genetic Control of Melanin Pigmentation in the Fowl, Smyth 76, page 76, it says that breast of e+ s+ female becomes dark red in presence of Mh

http://www.poultryscience.org/docs/pba/1952-2003/1976/1976%20Smyth.pdf

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