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#116829 - 09/25/17 06:09 PM White roo over black hens
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 637
Loc: Missouri
I bred a white Araucana roo I got from a friend who has bred nothing but white Araucana's the past 5 years. All her chicks are yellow so I'm "assuming" dominant whites. She never hatched anything but yellow chicks that feathered in white.

I breed this white rooster to my black Araucana hens for a couple white pullets to keep and breed back to him because my hens are larger and robust compared to her whites. Set a handful/staggered hatches.

As expected, the first 4 hatch. All yellow down. Showing white feathers coming in......

Then 3 more hatched today. A white...and 2 that appear to be blue. How the heck? I figured her flock was pretty much homozygous for dominant white. My hens are EE.

What happened? I can't even think straight at the moment

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#116830 - 09/26/17 07:50 AM Re: White roo over black hens [Re: Smooth Mule]
Hen-Gen Online   content
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 1141
Loc: Island of Fetlar, Shetland
I'm gay so I can't think straight any of the time. smirk

To be serious, first the easy bit. Dominant white Leghorns are often splash as well as this helps counteract the notorious leakiness of dominant white. I assume that this would be the case in Araucanas too.
One can only assume that the cockerel is not homozygous for dominant white. I can't think of any other explanation.


Edited by Hen-Gen (09/26/17 07:51 AM)
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#116832 - 09/26/17 04:18 PM Re: White roo over black hens [Re: Hen-Gen]
Redcap Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 954
Loc: Germany
Hasn't the blue gene be introduced in commerical strains due to positive effects on behaviour or production?
Kazjaps? Can You remember to facts into this direction?

Edit: I think it was feather pecking behaviour regulated by PMEL17 (and homogeneous growth of the flock?).


Edited by Redcap (09/26/17 05:23 PM)
Edit Reason: Added some thoughts
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#116833 - 09/27/17 01:28 AM Re: White roo over black hens [Re: Redcap]
Kaalnek Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 415
Loc: California
One possibility is both dominant and recessive white are present. If the stock is pure for recessive white, it's very easy for the stock to be het. for dom white and you just never know it.

Until those are bred to blacks....

I agree with others the blue probably was present or even deliberately bred into the whites. It's common for white stock to make use of barring, mottle, blue, silver to help clean or crispen up the white.

Maybe wait for the chicks to feather up though.. maybe the initial impressions are not exactly correct. I was surprised by not so quite typically barred or is it blue or is it both? chicks from a show stock white Naked Neck bred to a black. Later breeding showed them to be B^sd, nothing else. Now that was something I never expected to find..

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#116835 - 09/27/17 02:17 AM Re: White roo over black hens [Re: Kaalnek]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2807
Loc: Australia
Yes Redcap, it was research on behavioral effects of I dominant white (PMEL17 locus mutation). I haven't read the research though, only skimmed. Was wondering though if they needed to be E or ER eumelanin based, & I/I homozygous, as Lohmann Browns & Isa Browns (I/i+ dominant white red columbian) were known to be more cannibalistic /feather peckers when first imported to Australia.

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I wonder Kaalnek if someone had used White Leghorns to develop that line of White Naked Necks? Seems a good place to search for B^Sd is commercial White Leghorns, going by recent research.

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#116839 - 09/28/17 12:07 PM Re: White roo over black hens [Re: KazJaps]
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 637
Loc: Missouri
Here are some pics, sorry, I can't seem to post photo's here anymore so these are links. They are not typical blue to my eye.

Picture one




Edited by Smooth Mule (09/28/17 12:08 PM)
Edit Reason: picture not right

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#116840 - 09/28/17 12:09 PM Re: White roo over black hens [Re: Smooth Mule]
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 637
Loc: Missouri

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#116841 - 09/28/17 12:12 PM Re: White roo over black hens [Re: Smooth Mule]
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 637
Loc: Missouri
Is this blue? Doesn't look like the blues I've ever hatched or blacks.

another of the same chick

Today,
Feather tips

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#116842 - 09/28/17 07:09 PM Re: White roo over black hens [Re: Smooth Mule]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2807
Loc: Australia
Smooth Mule, I hope you don't mind, but I've just tested out imgur (image hosting website) with copying your chick photos to imgur, using the Facebook url (links) that you posted. It was very quick to do, imgur saves the image directly from the url (link) provided (ie don't have to upload the image from your computer).

Here are your chick photos:
Picture one

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picture 2 same chick

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another of the same chick

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Today, Feather tips

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#116843 - 09/28/17 09:17 PM Re: White roo over black hens [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2807
Loc: Australia
Smooth Mule, your chick phenotype could have easily hatched out of my sex-linked spotty pens (particularly the white patch on the back, also sometimes white patch on head).

* Left e+/e+ spotty & Right ER/e+ spotty

See this thread on Barring locus "New 2017 B locus paper - 3 mutation alleles"
* This discusses B^Sd sex-linked dilution and the newly discovered B locus allele Sex-linked Extreme Dilution. The latter day-old chicks when heterozygous on E have the white patch on the back, plus back of head too.

Also, Lanae was segregating similar spotty phenotype in Arauacanas to my Australian pitgames:
http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=108964#Post108964
But these were crossed back to wheatens, so on a different E locus allele, chicks were white.

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