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#116272 - 01/08/17 03:39 PM Re: Recessive Black? [Re: Wieslaw]
Redcap Online   content
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 952
Loc: Germany
In this paper they describe chick down of recessive black as follows:
Quote:
"Considerable extension of black in place of red; chick down mainly chocolate."

http://iloapp.kippenjungle.nl/blog/docum...om=auto,-165,23



Edited by Redcap (01/08/17 03:47 PM)
Edit Reason: Changed Quote
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#116556 - 03/28/17 02:26 PM Re: Recessive Black? [Re: Redcap]
Zenith311 Offline
New Egg

Registered: 03/27/16
Posts: 3
Loc: Pennsylvania
Thank you for all of your responses! They were quite insightful. I hadn't even realized there were responses because I have too many emails for new ones to come in. Haha laugh
A good cleansing is in order.

Truly a great website, it seems that questions rarely go without brilliant responses. Definitely easier to follow in these last few years now that I have a decent grasp on genetics, too, and thankfully so. I'll need that knowledge and understanding with all of my color projects.


Edited by Zenith311 (03/28/17 02:27 PM)

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#116858 - 09/30/17 02:08 PM Re: Recessive Black? [Re: Zenith311]
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 629
Loc: Missouri
SO, recessive black chick down is brown with no hint of red? Chocolate?? No photo's??

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#116861 - 10/01/17 04:27 PM Re: Recessive Black? [Re: Smooth Mule]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3757
Loc: Denmark
If recessive black is on e+, the chicks look just like chipmunks, sometimes with the brown stripes a little darker.

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#116862 - 10/01/17 07:35 PM Re: Recessive Black? [Re: Wieslaw]
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 629
Loc: Missouri
Then feather in black? How would you be able to distinguish that from melanizers?

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#116863 - 10/02/17 02:23 AM Re: Recessive Black? [Re: Smooth Mule]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2799
Loc: Australia
The Ml gene (without other modifiers) doesn't change e+, eb or eWh/ey chick down. Crawford's recessive charcoal mutation didn't change wheaten chick down. There are probably multiple recessive eumelanisers.

There is one recessive black that Fred Jeffrey found in USA OEGB. This one did melanise e+ chick down, produces a purplish-black hue in the down.

I don't know if the same mutation(s) but have a look at the Brassy Back OEGB at Cackle Hatchery stock. They have Brassy back chicks in this video, say they get two different colour patterns: https://youtu.be/CH0GW7DuipQ

1 - heavily melanised smoky black chicks, remnant eye stripe, very thin remnant back stripes, head heavily melanised (looks very similar to Quail Belgian Bearded Bantams with Co). The chick legs are a bit melanised too.

2 - slightly melanised e+ chick, more smoky around wings. Central dorsal stripe melanised -smoky, not chestnut. e+ head arrow stripe slightly melanised but still visible.

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#116864 - 10/02/17 02:44 AM Re: Recessive Black? [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2799
Loc: Australia
Note too that Ml is incompletely dominant, sex-influenced mutation. Eg when heterozygous it melanises ER hens quite well, appear mostly black (ie acts fully dominant) but roosters only slightly melanised. So Ml could be mistaken as recessive in some instances with roosters.

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