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#116960 - 12/12/17 07:59 PM Re: Bantam dwarfing [Re: Simon V.]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2871
Loc: Australia
Plenty of variety in Australian d'Uccle lines regarding wing position (ie not all dropped like European lines).

The main problem will be getting birds in that Australian Standard bantam silkie weight class. There aren't many breeds with Standards that low a weight. Not even the Modern Game Bantam Standard is that low, but some of the lines I have are smaller than the MGB Standard, bodies pigeon size.

The Dutch Bantam Standard weights are smaller: Males 500-550g (18-20oz) Female: 400-450g (14-16oz), Japs have the same bottom weight (higher top weight allowed). Some of my MGB hens are lighter than this, under 400g.

Just depends on if you want to hit those bantam silkie exhibition Standard weights.

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#116961 - 12/13/17 01:59 AM Re: Bantam dwarfing [Re: KazJaps]
Simon V. Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Australia
Well... I think it makes sense to try and hit those weights in the standards (so long as it doesn't adversely affect their welfare/health/quality of life), but they ARE very tiny. Maybe they should increase the large fowl mass in the standards so the bantam sized ones don't have to be quite so small. Taking the 1/3 smaller approach too literally may not be the smartest thing in a breed that is already small, tbh. I'd much rather work on orpington sized silkies than sparrow sized silkies. I'm not sure I'm totally on board with the ethics of this project, yet.

I'm also assuming that overall size is controlled by a plethora of modifying genes and once I get an actual dwarfing gene(s) into silkie lines it will be a matter of selectively breeding down in mass until you reach the target.


Edited by Simon V. (12/13/17 02:16 AM)

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#116962 - 12/16/17 03:29 PM Re: Bantam dwarfing [Re: Simon V.]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3844
Loc: Denmark
Thanks Kazjaps for opening my eyes. I have deleted my post. If we must consider both the dwarfing genes AND the "giant genes", it makes the whole subject much more complicated.

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#116977 - 12/26/17 07:14 PM Re: Bantam dwarfing [Re: Wieslaw]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2871
Loc: Australia
Just released Dec 2017 paper, includes research on Seramas, etc:

Wang et al., 2017. An Evolutionary Genomic Perspective on the Breeding of Dwarf Chickens.
Molecular Biology and Evolution, Volume 34, Issue 12, 1 December 2017, Pages 30813088, https://doi.org/10.1093/molbev/msx227
Abstract only
Quote:
Herein, we explore the evolution of the Serama, the smallest breed of chicken. Leveraging comparative population genomics, analyses identify several genes that are potentially associated with the growth and development of bones and muscles. These genes, and in particular both POU1F1 and IGF1, are under strong positive selection. Three allopatric dwarf bantams (Serama, Yuanbao, and Daweishan) with different breeding-histories, form distinct clusters and exhibit unique population structures. Parallel genetic mechanisms underlay their variation in body size. These findings provide insights into the multiple and complex pathways, depending on genomic variation, that chicken can take in response to aviculture selection for dwarfism.


*Unfortunately only the abstract available for free.

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#116981 - 12/27/17 12:41 PM Re: Bantam dwarfing [Re: KazJaps]
Redcap Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 985
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: KazJaps
Just released Dec 2017 paper, includes research on Seramas, etc:

Wang et al., 2017. An Evolutionary Genomic Perspective on the Breeding of Dwarf Chickens.
Molecular Biology and Evolution, Volume 34, Issue 12, 1 December 2017, Pages 30813088, https://doi.org/10.1093/molbev/msx227
Abstract only
Quote:
Herein, we explore the evolution of the Serama, the smallest breed of chicken. Leveraging comparative population genomics, analyses identify several genes that are potentially associated with the growth and development of bones and muscles. These genes, and in particular both POU1F1 and IGF1, are under strong positive selection. Three allopatric dwarf bantams (Serama, Yuanbao, and Daweishan) with different breeding-histories, form distinct clusters and exhibit unique population structures. Parallel genetic mechanisms underlay their variation in body size. These findings provide insights into the multiple and complex pathways, depending on genomic variation, that chicken can take in response to aviculture selection for dwarfism.

Full text is online
http://documents.kippenjungle.nl/#post51
_________________________

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