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#105989 - 10/13/12 08:54 AM Re: ey revisited [Re: KazJaps]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
Originally Posted By: KazJaps
Just one more comment on MC1R sequences of E and ER alleles.....

Going from memory, the Leu133Gln mutation (found in ER-Fayoumi) was sequenced quite early on. This was a unique MC1R mutation, not known to occur in mammals. The Glu92Lys (E92K) mutation was also sequenced early. This mutation has occurred in other species, eg causes black fur in mice. So when this same MC1R Glu92Lys mutation was found in chickens (before E), its not surprising to find someone calling it E - for extension/extended black, when comparing the mutation with other species. But then comes along another chicken MC1R sequence where they find two mutations that have occurred in other species, the previous Glu92Lys mutation coupled with a second one Met71Thr. Met71Thr by itself is also known to cause black extension, eg black wool in sheep. The following from R. Okimoto:
Quote:
The most dominant allele at this locus is the E extended black allele. It differs from wild-type e+ by two mutations that change the amino acid sequence of the gene (Met71Thr and Glu92Lys).....

...Our hypothesis is that you need both mutations to get the blackest bird and that if you have only the Glu92Lys you end up with the birchin black phenotype.


But the problem is that some scientists don't seem to recognise this, ie 3 different MC1R sequences giving black downed chicks and black extension to adults.




(Glu92Lys, Met71Thr) = E/E (Extended Black)
(Glu92Lys) = ER/ER (Birchen)
(Met71Thr) = ?/? (Black with leakage) ?

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#105998 - 10/13/12 12:54 PM Re: ey revisited [Re: Lanae]
tyuks Offline
Feather

Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 24
Loc: Hungary
Originally Posted By: Lanae
Hi Tyuks,

The standard color of the black breasted red araucana here in the US calls for a bird based on wheaten, but with Mh. Which is a darker color than the wheatens you find in other breeds. That correct color has all but been lost out to the breeding of the wild type bbr in the araucana. I find it wonderful that you have hatched a wheaten hen. There is a book written about araucana and it states that the correct wheaten color will pop up in wild type breedings from time to time and you can breed the wheatens together to stabilize the color and then only wheatens will hatch. So it sounds like it is some sort of hidden recessive.

Lanae

Hi Lanae,
I was sure I remembered reading something (before I read this thread) about Araucana having recessive wheaten. This hen is rather dark, more like the cubalaya type wheaten. She has some black ticking in her back.

She may have Mh, but she's a different color than other red enhanced wheatens I have hatched (Marans). The Marans are definitely more on the red side (like your industrial layers. But I think it could be Mh as the cockerels I hatched with her had some restriction in the breast, teardrop spangling in the wild types. I may breed her back to her father who is e+ and see what I get.

All the pure wheaten araucanas I see here now are the typical darker hackle, wheaten upper half/ cream lower half that is typical wheaten. European Araucanas (no ameraucanas here) often have beards/muffs.

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#105999 - 10/13/12 01:11 PM Re: ey revisited [Re: tyuks]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3824
Loc: Denmark
Just wanted to add, that double dose of Ml make the wheaton colour on females darker, too, without eumelanizing it(according to some studies)

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#106004 - 10/13/12 08:57 PM Re: ey revisited [Re: Wieslaw]
Lanae Offline
Chicken

Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Willits, California
Tyuks,

I would love to see a pic of your wheaten hen. You can send it to my email at lanaecash@yahoo.com if you would like. I will soon be posting new pictures of my wheatens to my website www.cashsblueeggs.com right now I only have pictures of the really dark ones on there.

I had read that the araucana Black Breasted Red was based on recessive wheaten also, but cannot remember where I read it. It is the same wheaten as the Black Breasted Red Cubalaya, Black Breasted Red Malay, and the Black Breasted Red Aseel but each of them varry in darkness with the Cubalaya and the Araucana being the lightest of this type of wheaten.

Wieslaw,

My wheatens are super dark and it is a real struggle for me. I have been told repeatedly to hatch alot of eggs and choose the best but my wheatens are poor layers so the process of lightening them up thru selection is long and laborous. I have recently purchased two of what I hope to be genetically correct wheaten roosters and will begin hatching in earnest this fall. I just set 8 eggs from two of my wheaten hens in my incubator. Hopefully egg production will pick up as I have 12 wheaten hens and only 1 is close to correctly colored.

Not cool to hear that Ml could be what is affecting my hens. Here I was just thinking they were too mahogany and now something else to consider.

Lanae

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#117013 - 02/13/18 01:40 PM Re: ey revisited [Re: Lanae]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3824
Loc: Denmark
I have one barred wheaten who segregated from creles.

Coming back to eWh, it was written in old documents, that eWh cocks were supposed to have white underfluff in contrast to all other e-locus genes.
On one of the sites on wheaten marans it is said, that they are dominant wheaten, but it is stated , that their underfluff is dark grey. Can anybody confirm it?

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#117017 - 02/18/18 08:14 AM Re: ey revisited [Re: Wieslaw]
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 657
Loc: Missouri
I can ask my friend about hers..
this would be the Black Copper variety, correct?



Edited by Smooth Mule (02/18/18 08:15 AM)
Edit Reason: addition

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#117020 - 02/18/18 09:32 AM Re: ey revisited [Re: Smooth Mule]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3824
Loc: Denmark
No, not Black Copper. Wheaten. You can ask your friend, if anybody crossed it to Brown Leghorn or Welsummer, and what was the result

http://www.maransofamericaclub.com/wheaten-marans.html

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