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#117201 - 06/26/18 08:22 AM Re: Are my chickens "Spotty"? as in Spotty Game Bird [Re: KazJaps]
PurpleSully Offline
Feather

Registered: 04/19/18
Posts: 24
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: KazJaps

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Quite strange. I see a lot of similarities with sex-linked spotties, but more colour with yours. They seem in between spotties and extreme dilutes. Although it's hard to know with the extreme dilutes as only one closeup photo in the 2017 paper, this a het/hemi and appears still young (or a pullet), so don't know if it would have changed a lot when an adult.

Link to 2017 paper photos (extreme dilute = B0):
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1006665.g001



My friend who owns the original rooster (called "Keeper") and a couple people (including myself) who got offspring from Keeper are perplexed. Keeper is thought to be dominant wheaten and wild type. He is marked like the spotted cockerel that my friend has. Half the Keeper's chicks hatch with 'regular' coloring, but the other half have a light patch on the back and either develop the appearance of a spotty chicken, or of dilution barring.

Some one told me that Spotty is sexlinked recessive and that females cannot show the gene. I am doubtful of that though, after looking through your thread. I wonder... is it possible that the original rooster has both spotty and dilution barring?

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#117202 - 06/26/18 08:27 AM Re: Are my chickens "Spotty"? as in Spotty Game Bird [Re: PurpleSully]
PurpleSully Offline
Feather

Registered: 04/19/18
Posts: 24
Loc: United States
I wish those links showed mature B-0 barred birds. As light as my heterozygous and hemizygous chickens are, I don't think they're B^sd.

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#117204 - 06/28/18 02:44 AM Re: Are my chickens "Spotty"? as in Spotty Game Bird [Re: PurpleSully]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2864
Loc: Australia
Thank you, the photos are good.

Note, there is a limit to the number of photos allowed in a single post, this possibly the problem you had. Eg, looks like 10 is the limit:
1: 2. 3.4.
5. 6.7. 8.
9. 10.
11. [img]http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu37/...zps2b2393e3.jpg[/img]
12. [img]http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu37/...zps2b2393e3.jpg[/img]
13.[img]http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu37/...zps2b2393e3.jpg[/img]

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#117205 - 06/28/18 03:16 AM Re: Are my chickens "Spotty"? as in Spotty Game Bird [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2864
Loc: Australia
For comparison, my sex-linked spotty e+ (buffish heads) and ER (or E) (greyish heads) chicks:


So I take your ones with 1 dose of B0(?) extreme dilution mutation, when on a e+ or similar mixed coloured chick down, are not diluted much as day olds (ie when not E or ER black down base, have some phaeomelanin)?

And I wonder about your friends rooster here, is it possible he has one dose of new mutation, and one dose of barring?

eg, could he be from keeper X B barred or crele hen?

This phenotype is similar to my spotty/barred heterozygous roosters (although mine less pronounced barring in the spots).

Mine take a long time to express the barring when young, although this cockerel developed more spots as an adult.

Note - with crossing this spotty/barred rooster with spotty or barred (e+ B/- crele) hens, I've only segregated spotty or barred daughters, no b+. I mostly produced homozygous spotty sons (solid white), although 3 are heterozygote spotties, of which one obvious spotty/barred, but the other 2 too hard to tell at this age whether B or b+.


Edited by KazJaps (06/28/18 03:23 AM)
Edit Reason: added last paragraph

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#117206 - 06/28/18 03:39 AM Re: Are my chickens "Spotty"? as in Spotty Game Bird [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2864
Loc: Australia
I don't know if Keeper is B0 - extreme dilution (because the paper doesn't show a clear example of B0 adults)

I take it Keeper has only produced these extreme dilution phenotypes similar to him - or b+ wild-type (black, BBRed, wheaten, etc). Ie he hasn't produced barred /crele adult daughters, nor any obvious B^Sd adults of all grey bars?

If not any barred daughters or B^Sd grey barred adults (both genders), I think you can be safe in saying he has B0 extreme dilution or another new B locus allele. Although I don't think he has sex-linked spotty mutation, as spotties are more diluted in ER hens, e+ chicks, and het. spotty males have cleaner white base and only spots, not large patches of colour.

Mind you, I like your B0 E or ER hens much more than spotties. Very pretty.

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#117207 - 06/28/18 03:49 AM Re: Are my chickens "Spotty"? as in Spotty Game Bird [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2864
Loc: Australia
The next step is breeding a homozygous rooster, put him to one of his extreme dilute daughters. It will be interesting to see if you get solid white homozygotes like the spotties.

One thing about homozygote spotties, if you want a clean white plumage rooster with white or yellow legs, it's a huge cheat - doesn't matter what all the other colour/pattern genes are (ie dilutes everything - phaeomelanin and eumelanin, epidermal and id+ dermal pigments). Can't think of a gene like it (beats I dominant white, c recessive white -leg colour). Would be very useful in white broiler lines.

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#117208 - 06/28/18 06:20 AM Re: Are my chickens "Spotty"? as in Spotty Game Bird [Re: KazJaps]
PurpleSully Offline
Feather

Registered: 04/19/18
Posts: 24
Loc: United States
Thank you for all of your thoughts! I'll try to answer everything...

The cockerel with the barring on the non-white feathers had a few feather stubs as a chick so the mother is the cuckoo cochin mix. So, yes he is also hetero for barring. Shortly after he was hatched, Keeper's owner sold all of her barred hens and hatched over 100 chicks from Keeper. None of the non-diluted chicks showed barring, so I'm confident that Keeper is not barred.

My Keeper/Black Copper Marans crossed cockerel is the father of the chicks I hatched from e+/e+ brown leghorn hens. So far two are ER/- with dilution and two are eWh/e+ without dilution. I have more eggs in the incubator now so hopefully I'll be able to update with pictures of the eWh/e+ chicks with dilution in three weeks.

The chicks from my Tolbunt Polish rooster over the E/- hen with dilution had a similar read head, but that could be from the Db gene.

I don't know if Keeper's owner plans to breed daughters to him, but I have a couple eggs from my two Keeper/Marans birds being penned together. The weather has been unseasonably hot here, so egg production dropped and I was only able to gather 4 eggs from the pairing in the last week.

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#117209 - 06/28/18 06:26 AM Re: Are my chickens "Spotty"? as in Spotty Game Bird [Re: PurpleSully]
PurpleSully Offline
Feather

Registered: 04/19/18
Posts: 24
Loc: United States
These are from my Keeper/Marans birds... They look like light blue cuckoo, but non of the non-diluted chicks grew up to have blue from the 100+ chicks that hatched from Keeper. My friends and I are confident that he does not have Blue for this reason.


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#117210 - 06/28/18 06:36 AM Re: Are my chickens "Spotty"? as in Spotty Game Bird [Re: PurpleSully]
PurpleSully Offline
Feather

Registered: 04/19/18
Posts: 24
Loc: United States
No, none of his diluted pullet offspring have actually looked like the pictures of B^sd I've seen online.

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#117211 - 06/28/18 07:12 AM Re: Are my chickens "Spotty"? as in Spotty Game Bird [Re: PurpleSully]
PurpleSully Offline
Feather

Registered: 04/19/18
Posts: 24
Loc: United States
This is a son of Keeper. His mother is a Speckled Sussex/Red Sexlink hen.

It's interesting how Mahogany counteracts the dilution that happened on the pullet with red spots that I previously posted. When the pullet was this age she she was more of a buff cuckoo color.


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