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#117416 - 06/10/19 12:03 PM Clear Shanks = G. Sonneratii/domesticus admixture
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 2006
Loc: Nicaragua
Not news really, just wanted to point out that recent research has only mentioned the Yellow skin allele(w/w for yellow skin, W+ for wildtype white skin), every research(perhaps I overlooked or could not find them) paper found on the subject seems to have forgotten/omitted the sex linked dermal inhibitor gene that produces clear shanks(Id/-, w/w will produce yellow shanks females), so clear yellow shanks found in the domestic chickens is due to two alleles, the recessive autosomal yellow skin allele(w/w) and the sex linked dermal inhibitor(Id) allele, interestingly enough such phenotype can be found in both the Grey Junglefowl and Ceylon Junglefowl.

So I propose that until proven otherwise the sex linked dermal inhibitor gene(Id) be also considered as a gene inherited from the Grey/Ceylon Junglefowl introgression early in the domestication of chicken

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#117417 - 06/12/19 08:19 AM Re: Clear Shanks = G. Sonneratii/domesticus admixture [Re: Marvin]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 2006
Loc: Nicaragua
48 hours after a post and not even one view on my post? This place used to be a slow place to post and get any interchange of ideas, but now is just dead. Really sad.

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#117418 - 06/13/19 06:07 AM Re: Clear Shanks = G. Sonneratii/domesticus admixture [Re: Marvin]
Hen-Gen Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 1180
Loc: Island of Fetlar, Shetland
It is indeed sad, Marvin, as this was a rich source of informed opinion until recently.
If one google images Red Jungle Fowl one can see numerous examples of clean shanked birds. Whether this is due to the Id allele being present within this population or whether it results from cross breeding with domestic fowl is any bodies guess.
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#117419 - 06/13/19 08:31 AM Re: Clear Shanks = G. Sonneratii/domesticus admixture [Re: Hen-Gen]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 2006
Loc: Nicaragua
Originally Posted By: Hen-Gen
If one google images Red Jungle Fowl one can see numerous examples of clean shanked birds. Whether this is due to the Id allele being present within this population or whether it results from cross breeding with domestic fowl is any bodies guess.


Really? I just did that and did not find any(https://www.google.com/search?q=Red+Jung...440&bih=789 ) as to how a "Red Junglefowl" would have clean shanks? I would say that 90% chance of being a RJF/Chicken cross, 4% of RJF/GJF natural hybrid(really rare) and 1% that the Dominant Sex linked Dermal Inhibitor(Id) being present all along in the RJF line.

If one looks at the Grey Jungle Fowl pics, you will see that 99% of the pics shows clean yellow shanks.


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#117420 - 06/13/19 09:18 AM Re: Clear Shanks = G. Sonneratii/domesticus admixture [Re: Marvin]
Hen-Gen Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 1180
Loc: Island of Fetlar, Shetland
Interesting response!
When I scroll down the Red Jungle Fowl images I see several with white shanks ie free of dermal melanin. Perhaps I should take more tonic with my gin! grini
I also see four with yellow shanks!


Edited by Hen-Gen (06/15/19 06:31 AM)
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If you have nothing............
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#117424 - 06/15/19 08:18 PM Re: Clear Shanks = G. Sonneratii/domesticus admixture [Re: Hen-Gen]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2895
Loc: Australia
At Feathersite they have photos of crosses between Grey Junglefowl male (light legs) and domestic chicken hens: Silver Phoenix and Blue OEG (which should be id+, the Silver Phoenix hen's legs somewhat pale in the photo). All F1, including e+ from Silver Phoenix hen, have darkish legs
http://feathersite.com/Poultry/NDG/BRKGJF.html#GJFX

So this suggests that the light legs of Grey Junglefowl is not due to the same allele as chicken Id.

Id DNA researchers are getting close to determining the Id locus and mutation, but it looks like it's complex, further research needed.

Mapping of Id locus for dermal shank melanin in a Chinese indigenous chicken breed.
Xu J, Lin S, Gao X, Nie Q, Luo Q, Zhang X.
J Genet. 2017 Dec;96(6):977-983.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29321357/
Quote:
Additionally, the results of the association analysis and the expression analysis showed that GRAMD3 could be the most likely candidate gene for the Id locus. However, we did not detect a mutation, i.e. significantly associated with this trait within GRAMD3. Therefore, we concluded that the variations located in the flanking region of GRAMD3 led to the abnormal expression of GRAMD3, which requires further study.

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#117426 - 06/17/19 06:49 AM Re: Clear Shanks = G. Sonneratii/domesticus admixture [Re: KazJaps]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 2006
Loc: Nicaragua
Originally Posted By: KazJaps
DNA researchers are getting close to determining the Id locus and mutation, but it looks like it's complex, further research needed.
You are right about further research needed because I don't trust "Feathersite" as good source.

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#117427 - 06/20/19 11:29 AM Re: Clear Shanks = G. Sonneratii/domesticus admixture [Re: Marvin]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3869
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Marvin
48 hours after a post and not even one view on my post? This place used to be a slow place to post and get any interchange of ideas, but now is just dead. Really sad.


Actually , that is not quite right. I have found out, that the views are updated first after the next posting is posted, new postings are usually read by approximately 30 people or so.(numbers "jump up" by around 15)

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#117428 - 06/21/19 10:17 AM Re: Clear Shanks = G. Sonneratii/domesticus admixture [Re: Wieslaw]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 2006
Loc: Nicaragua
Originally Posted By: Wieslaw
Originally Posted By: Marvin
48 hours after a post and not even one view on my post? This place used to be a slow place to post and get any interchange of ideas, but now is just dead. Really sad.


Actually , that is not quite right. I have found out, that the views are updated first after the next posting is posted, new postings are usually read by approximately 30 people or so.(numbers "jump up" by around 15)
Thanks, what happened to this place? I learned so much on this place, it was kinda slow but now it's more so than before.


Edited by Marvin (06/21/19 10:18 AM)

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#117439 - 07/17/19 11:43 PM Re: Clear Shanks = G. Sonneratii/domesticus admixture [Re: Marvin]
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3239
Loc: Netherlands
Yes, my condolences too.

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