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#15240 - 09/12/04 12:09 AM Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Greetings-
Today was an odd one egg-wise. After weeks of normal and nice sized eggs, out of the blue I got a very tiny one. I have already SEARCHed and found it happens occasionally. I'm cool with it.
I only mention this in case it has anything to do with the following: This evening I notice one of my girls acting different. Slow, quiet, not really eating, and unable to get to the roost. She got to the day-rooast board and stayed there. I went to check on her after about 90 minutes. There beneath her was a whole soft-shelled egg. I removed it and spoke softly to her. She turned around and so I checked her vent. It was kind of 'drippy' wet. I assumed that was from the egg. I gently felt her underside and plop..into my hand a shell-less egg! I became very concerned. About an hour later I checked on the girls again. On the night roost board was another girl whose vent was 'drippy' and there beneath her a shell-less egg. I became alarmed!
The girls get oyster shell, but I have been thinking about a suppliment to add to their water. They are 6 months old. They have been laying since July 2nd. They have safe housing and a penned yard. No rooster in with them. Plenty of room and nest boxes. Layer pellets. Plenty of water.
The first girl is still on the lower day roost board, which I would expect is normal since she would not likely relocate after dark. But I think she still doesn't seem 'right'. It's hard to tell and will be until the morning.
Is she egg bound? Or was she egg bound? What should I do, if anything?

Thank you-


TC
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#15241 - 09/12/04 02:28 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sympathys Collective. I'm getting this too from one of my pair of hens. Similar age, similar time on lay, a great start and then splot, spit, and splat! I'm tired of picking up these grotesque messes from the nest or under her roost. I tried feeding apple cider vinigar, and I thought she'd sorted out, since I got a run of eggs with shells - twisted, mishapen eggs at first and then about three bog standard, if slightly paler shells than before, but she's been back on her old bad form for the last five days, and spending a lot of time mooching on the nest to squeeze out what looks like spilled albumen. I've changed the layer's mash I feed and offer smashed up oyster shells, which she doesn't seem to eat.

Not sure where we go from here.

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#15242 - 09/12/04 04:25 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Sandy C. Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 278
Loc: Australia
TC and Clucker
I think what is happening to your girls is that it is taking so long for her to pass the soft shelled egg another one is moving down and getting stuck behind it

Below I have posted a set of instruction that I give to people who have hens that are egg bound

I would also suggest you start her on a diet high in calcium, phosphorus, and vitamin D
The vitamin D is necessary for her to absorb the calcium and phosphorus to help with egg shell formation

This can be achieved by giving
1/4 teaspoon Calcium supplement or 2 tablespoons yoghurt
1/4 teaspoon Cod liver oil or 1 x egg yolk
1 teaspoon honey
AD & E Powder sprinkled over top
Mix all together with some rolled oats and allow the bird to eat it at her leisure
Discard after 12 hours in hot weather (it may go off)

Supply other food and fresh clean water also

Egg bound hens
A hen is said to be egg bound when she fails to lay her egg
This is a common condition, and may result from inflammation of the oviduct, malformed or double yolker egg, or a too large egg in a young pullet

The bird seems very restless
She will drink little and eat little
She will tend to stand all hunched up
She visits the nest regularly in an attempt to lay her egg
Hew oviduct may end up protrude due to excessive pushing by her to eject the egg; internal haemorrhage or exhaustion may occur and the fowl may die
She may smell badly
Her vent will look quite red and protrude
She may have faecal matter that has built up behind the egg, if you see white liquid that will be her urates trying to pass (urine in chickens)

Sit her in a tub of warm soapy water
Make sure the vent is submerged for about 30 minutes, this may seem like a long time, but you have to relax the vent area and make is subtle for the egg to pass through, it really does help the hen, 85% of the time this will be all that you will need to do for her and the egg will pass out with a little push from her
You can rub some lubricant around the vent area if you think that may help too, KY jelly, petroleum jelly, Vaseline or Olive Oil all work fine.
Make sure you isolate her from the other hens, or they will peck at her vent causing more damage

Put her into an isolation cage, put plenty of news paper down first and then put heated towels down they will act like a heat pad for her, no drafts when she is wet or she will catch a chill
You can heat up towels in your microwave, works a treat
If you have a heat pad that would be even better, put plenty of towels over it or it will get messy
Leave her for a little while to see if she passes the egg, if not, repeat the warm water and soap again

Some people just use the heating pads, this sometimes seems to relax the muscles and allow the egg to slip out

If this doesnít work, you may have to resort to removing the egg manually, not a nice task, and she will complain about what you are doing bitterly, you will need two people to do this task

Using KY jelly, Petroleum jelly or Vaseline, insert your finger in the vent
With your other hand you can press gently on her abdomen moving the egg down the oviduct towards the cloaca
Once you can see the egg, if it wonít pass, then rupture the egg and gently remove all the shell
Some have suggested you use a sharp instrument, I would not recommend this at all it could result in causing the hen internal injuries
The shell of the egg will be very sharp when broken and could also damage the chicken internally
Once you have broken the shell, make sure you remove every particle carefully
The cloaca should then be washed with a weak warm water/salt solution, this is to make sure all the egg contents and shell has been removed from inside the hen, if it isnít it could cause bacteria to start growing inside her, and then youíve got an even bigger problem to solve

Once the egg has ejected you will want to keep an eye on her for a while
There may be another egg backed up in her oviduct system, especially if she lays an egg every day or every other day

Sometimes they absorb the egg, but this is very unlikely and very unusual
If you canít find the egg and it has gone from the hen, more than likely she has eaten it shell and all

If it has ruptured inside her, you should look for small pieces of shell, or evidence of any cuts around the vent area
Just remember while your looking and sticking your finger in places she would prefer you didnít, the egg shells can be quite sharp and may cut you and her
If you do find any cuts around her cloaca, rinse with hydrogen peroxide
Watch her for listlessness, dull eyes, and signs of fever
Infection can come on pretty quick

Keep a close eye on her, this could happen again to her and she will need immediate action to fix the problem

How to help prevent the hen from laying any more eggs
If there is any small prolapse gently push it back into the chicken with your fingers.
The chicken should then be put on a maintenance diet of wheat and water and put in a dark cage.
Leave the hen there for a week.

However, it is important to restrict the chickens diet to maintenance only for possibly a couple of months. This does work!! Alternative to maintenance diet is feeding the chicken enough to keep it alive, moving and keeping warm plus enough extra feed for it to produce eggs.

You may find that by reducing the feed it brings on a forced molt

By reducing feed intake so that the bird has just enough feed to keep it alive, moving and keeping warm you are feeding for maintenance only. The chicken will not lay eggs and so give it the best chance of recovery.
_________________________
Sandy
http://happyhenhouse.proboards43.com

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#15243 - 09/12/04 05:00 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Sandy, just one thing - what's AD & E powder please?

I don't think mine is egg bound, she does get out eggs every day, even though they are a mess. The other one is a star - she puts a nice brown egg out every day. Just being called for bacon and eggs by my wife... LOL.

Tony

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#15244 - 09/12/04 06:14 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks, too!
I am not certain I understand what 'egg bound' is or isn't. After doing a SEARCH I am just a little bit confused; it seems the info I read was conflicting. What, in lay-man's terms is it? Also, what should I ask for exactly as far as suppliments?
It's nearly time to let the girls out for the morning. I'll post my girls condition if there are any changes.
please note: This is the first time I have not looked forward to going out to the coop. I have a bad feeling.

TC
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#15245 - 09/12/04 08:29 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Usually my 'feelings' are accurate, but I think they are affected by worry.
ALL is well in the coop! laugh
It's almost difficult to tell which girl wasn't right last night. When I entered the coop, they pooled around my feet and so it was impossible to count them. (something I have been doing since the day I got them.) I had a flashlight and was scanning the floor for..for..well you know. I opened their little door and out they all ran, making their happy little sounds.
Whew! I nearly wept with relief.

But all of that doesn't change what did happen and what I need to do to prevent any future problems.
???????

TC
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#15246 - 09/12/04 04:52 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Sandy C. Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 278
Loc: Australia
Hi TC & Clucker

AD & E Powder... is vitamin A D and E... its a vitamin supplement powder you can sprinkle on to the food of the hens

If you asked for a multi vitamin supplement to anyone or place that sells things for poultry they should be able to help you.. or you could purchase these products over the internet.... not sure where you could buy them as I live in Australia

If your hens are not egg bound... then they most definately need extra calcium in their diet, this can be easily achieved by feeding some calcium powder or yoghurt mixed into their dry feed

They would also need to be given vitamin D.. without this the calcium can't be absorbed by the hens... in a lot a cases this is what the problem is with hens laying soft shelled eggs, giving vitmain D powder or cold liver oil (1/4 teasoon) is all that is necessary to achieve this

The small egg you described TC, these are really small and most do not have a yolk in them... they are called of all things "fart eggs", sounds a bit grose doesn't it.. what happens is that a small piece of tissue or something starts the eggs not a yolk... and thats why they are small and usually no yolk

More information can be found on this on this site
http://www.poultryhelp.com
go to the FAQ section

Egg bound... is when a hen has a soft shelled or a extra large egg inside her and unable to push it out easily... it gets stuck... eggs with soft or no shells don't give the hen something to push against to pop it out... and it takes them 80% more effort to lay the egg... and if another egg is coming behind it then it makes it even harder for them to pop out

When you find the egg on the floor of the coop after the nights sleep... it is usually due to the fact that the hen relaxes her muscles and the soft shelled egg falls out

Sandy
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Sandy
http://happyhenhouse.proboards43.com

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#15247 - 09/12/04 07:35 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
TC, Six months old pullets that have been laying nicely, should not be having need for suppliments, if their feed has been a good Layer Ration. While Oyster shell is good to offer, so that there will be no drain on their bones, etc. a good layer ration is all they need for continual production of normal eggs for at least a year, usually longer. You may hit the ceiling when I ask: what else have they been eating? I won't say more than "fun and enjoyment" or "they love it", does not produce eggs and may contribute to problems with that shell gland that "finishes" each egg. I mean it sincerely, not as any "after thought". Will it correct itself? Cannot say. I hope so, but I would stop feeding anything except their layer ration, at least for a few weeks!

"Egg bound" is having a large hard shelled egg that cannot exit the vent. Lack of lubrication and then extreme pain and inflamation results in a hen straining and taking the posture of a penguin. If it cannot exit, the hen will die, and partly because she cannot pass her poop and all systems are backed up.
Soft shelled egg are also trapped in the canal, but usually slowly move along and the hen is in quiet distress for a day or two, until it finally drops out. If the soft shelled egg breaks inside, infection will begin--and the hen will die, but rarely is the poop plugged, as the soft shelled egg is flexible enough to allow it to pass, even if hung up right at the opening. Egg bound is the worst of all, as once it happens, it is apt to repeat , and the inflamation likely will be an infection before she heals, as another egg following, will add to the misery. Soft shelled can more often be a one or two time thing, which corrects, but infections of the canal--at any part can lead to binding OR soft shells--never a good prognosis. An occasional "teeny" egg is not a cause for worry, but if a hen lays two or more, she may have an infection of her ovary. Not a good thing. CJR

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#15248 - 09/12/04 11:14 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Point well taken CJR, but unecessary. The 10 RIRs I call The Collective are fed Layer Pellets. They have free access to their feed hopper. They have access to oyster shell and grit. On Saturdays I give them blackberries, 2 each. On Sundays I clip the soft, new sprouts from the berry bushes and toss them into their yard along 1 cup of scratch. On Tuesdays they get to share 1 ear of corn. On Thursdays I mix 1 cup oats with 1/2 cup of 2% milk, and 3 tblsp plain yogurt. That is the extent of their 'treats'. I never have indulged them. I won't say more either.
Okay..What has happened since last night is I realized 'who' the girl in question is. Since they began laying I have called one of the girls Belch. I didn't know which one she was and spent a lot of time trying to figure out the mystery. But she became my Big Egg Laying CHicken.

As it turns out, this afternoon as I was in the coop installing my redesigned water system, she presented me with one of her 'grande huevos'.
So...does this make any sense?
Suppliments was something I had considered because while I give them oyster shell, I don't really notice that it is being consumed.

I'll let you know what tomorrow brings.

TC
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#15249 - 09/13/04 02:10 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks very much for the advice Sandy and CJR. It is really helpful to be able to get advice from people with experience. I'm wondering of the vitamin content of my feed has deteriorated. The bags last for ages with only two hens... Probably I've had them too long - I know some vitamines are shortlived. I'll try and get the powder Sandy. I'm sure CJR is right that a good layer ration is enough - but I know the bag I am using now has a best before date of August 2004... Maybe some hens are more sensitive to a decline in vitamin content... The powder can do no harm for sure.

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#15250 - 09/14/04 10:28 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Update: It appears whatever was 'up' with my girl (Belch) has passed or subsided. Is it possible that she just had a 'catch in her get along' and it worked itself out? She has laid one of her 'generous' eggs since the incident and if she stays true to her previous schedule I expect one tomorrow.
So is it possible that all might be well? Or will only time answer that question?

TC
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#15251 - 09/15/04 04:17 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Sandy C. Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 278
Loc: Australia
I would still give them the extra vitamins... as CJR said... a good layer pellet/feed has everything a hen needs.. but sometimes the hens just don't absorb enough of the vitamins and mineral or they don't eat enough... or the feed is getting old

It sure wouldn't hurt them to just give them an extra little help with the vitamin supplement for a couple of week

And TC... I personally would add just a little extra calcium to the girl who is laying those really big eggs... it must be taking the calcium level in her system down considerably, and just a few drops of cod liver oil on her beak to help her utilize the calcium would be a help to her I am sure... but the end decision is up to you.. this is just what I would do

Sandy
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Sandy
http://happyhenhouse.proboards43.com

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#15252 - 09/15/04 08:38 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Gosh darn it- My girl is acting the same way as Saturday night. Quiet, solitaire, 'slow', and is on the day roost just as before.
So in summary:
RIR 6 months. Laying since July 2nd.
Always produces jumbo, double yolk eggs at the rate of 1 every other day.
Always laid in the afternoon. The last egg of the day.
Saturday the 11th behaving as stated above.
Could not get to night roost (15 inches)
Remained on day roost.
Checked her @ 10PM. Found her standing above a soft-shelled, single yolk egg. After I removed it, she turned around. I checked vent area and gentle felt tummy area. She released a no-shelled egg.
Sunday morning she's a happy camper-ette.
Sunday afternoon she laid one of her LARGE eggs.
Monday fine. No egg.
Tuesday fine. No egg.
This morning fine. No egg.
6PM acting like Saturday and on day roost.
I am going out to check her now (8:30PM)
I will add to this post when I return.

I just need to know what to do. She looks uncomfortable. I am sure this was not what she had in mind. Should I isolate her? Could this be an odd hereditary thing? Is she ill?
I am certain it has something to do with jumping right into laying jumbos.
Also, her feathers are sleek and shiny. Her comb is nice and red. She is average sized (not overwieght I would think.)

Thanks again.

TC
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#15253 - 09/15/04 09:20 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok- She is standing kind of 'tall'. Not hunched or penguin-like. Below her was a small 'pool' of what I can only describe as looking like baby spit-up. Sorry to those who may not be familar with it. Or...like mayonaise swirled in water. By small, I mean about the size of 2 half dollars.
I peeked at her vent and surrounds. I really didn't see anything unusual, but then I do not know what to look for. Suffice it to say, no blood. No leaking. No protrubances.
I can say her posture is more pronounced than Saturday night.
Any experienced advice would be appreciated.

TC
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#15254 - 09/16/04 12:52 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mine seems to be cured.

I followed Sandy's advice (almost) and added cod liver oil to their pellets. Bingo, next morning and the one after, my dodgy hen layed the two best shelled eggs I've seen from her for weeks. Early days maybe, but the difference was remarkable. At best, the shells have been thin and chalky for about six weeks and the dog has had quite a few horrible 'things' delivered in what looked like paper thin polythene....

Not any more. Thanks Sandy

The other hen has never had any trouble with the pellets and does her stuff correctly every day, but I suppose individual hens will vary in their ability to make do on ageing feed as its vitamin content goes off. If I had fifty hens this wouldn't happen, but with two, the stuff lasts a long time.

Try the codliver oil on her Collective. Worked like magic on mine.

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#15255 - 09/16/04 01:09 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Collective wrote:

"Below her was a small 'pool' of what I can only describe as looking like baby spit-up."


Mine had exactly the same kind of leakage the other day. Next morning, she layed a fairly normal egg with a scrumpled up paper thin shell stuffed on the top. I peeled it off and found it to be the shell of an egg that had collapsed in the laying the day before. The following egg had pushed it out. It was more like scrumpled tissue paper than anything else.

Try the codliver oil thing Collective. I see on the bottle it contains Vits A, D and E. I think it was 'D' that Sandy said they needed to utilise the calcium in their food.

Check the 'best before' date on your layer meal. The vitamis are the first thing to decline as time goes on.

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#15256 - 09/16/04 02:35 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Sandy C. Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 278
Loc: Australia
TC

I really think your girl is having all sorts of problems producing enough calcium to coat those large eggs... then she ends up with nothing left for the next one... she will end up with an egg stuck inside her... this is not a maybe this is a certainty

I really feel that you need to give her some extra calcium and some cod liver oil for her to utilize the calcium

Also if you are putting any Apple cider vinegar in her food please stop... this stops her from utilizing what calcium she is taking into her system

Sandy
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Sandy
http://happyhenhouse.proboards43.com

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#15257 - 09/16/04 05:49 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good morning-
I don't give my girls anything other than what I listed in a previous post. I need to do something, so I will try the Cod Liver Oil. Pardon my ignorance, but is that something you get at the grocery, pharmacy, feed store, or vets?
I am off to the coop while praying she is not...I mean that she is better.

Later that same morning: Okay...she isn't better, but she isn't, I mean she IS alive. She looks a little 'fluffy', but perhaps I have never really seen the girls during the pre-dawn minutes.
Also, My layer pellets are good and fresh. And with 10 pullets, there's no time for it to 'age'.

TC
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Sandy- Please check your PM. tc

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#15258 - 09/16/04 06:46 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Aram Seattle Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 547
Loc: Washington
Young pullet get into a lot of problems when they start laying. THey lay doulbe yolkers, teeny eggs and other sorts of things. I double yolker takes a lot of calcium out of a hen.

In my setup I feed an all purpose 18% feed to hens which contains 0% calcium. They get all of it from a separate tin-can feeder with oyster shell or cracked egg shells. They see to be laying just fine. I get a soft shell egg rarely and only when I neglect to refill the oyster shells. Contrary to your experience my hens love oyster shells and eat lots of them, especially before they go to roost at night.

My climate is not all that different from yours, Collective, so availability of the sun to synthesize Vitamin D should not be a concern. Try feeding the oyster shells separately just to know how much they are consuming.

By the way, mine ate lots of oyster shells even when I feed them layer crumble.

Do yours have access to grass. I give my hens mowed grass every other day for vitamins. They eat what they want and abandon the rest. Maybe you can put some trace elements into the hens by feeding them a little bit of grass too.

I really do not know why things are happening to you. Theoretically you are doing everything right. Maybe getting rid of vinegar would do the trick. I never give mine any vinegar.

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#15259 - 09/16/04 06:57 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Aram_Seattle: Thanks for your concern.
I don't give them vinegar. I do have their oyster shell in a separate container, too. I guess I don't know how much oyster shell is normal for a pullet (or 10) to eat, but I don't see the level in the container going down. So that was why I was concerned.
Does oyster shell vary? Is there different brands which are more popular (better)? Or 'sizes' like grit?

TC
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#15260 - 09/16/04 07:46 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


The vinegar was my thing. Someone on here suggested it to me when the soft egg thing first started about six weeks ago, so I went out and got some. I'll discontinue it right away.

I'm hoping that she'll continue to do ok now she's getting enough vitamins. Next time I buy a sack of feed, I'll make sure it has plenty of shelf life left in it...

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#15261 - 09/16/04 07:51 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
TC This isn't anything you have done or could have done, and I am not at all sure there is anything you can do now. Because the birds cannot tell us where it hurts and we do not have diagnostic equipment or gynocologists for our hens, everything is speculation and even experience cannot give the answers.

Thatr gloppy discharge is NOT GOOD, as when she ejected the egg with no shell or soft shell, the entire canal has been contaminated, with no way to flush and antibiotics are unlikely to be sufficient treatment for what possibly has become an infection. When the shell gland fails to function properly, it is just a malfunction at first, but when it continues, it is a red flag for other reproductive problems.

It is not lack of calcium--as all your birds would be having the problem to one degree or another. Not the case.

Now your lethargic pullet is indicating that the problem is probably greater. Unfortunately, over the net, and with no specialist seeing your pullet--if there was one--I can only go from experience. Hens that have recurring problems laying eggs are most often a lost cause. (A hysterectomy might save their life?) It is very sad to us, for every bird is precious and important to us. Not so in the "industry". Elimination is the name of the game. I often write, that with the millions and millions of hens in production, it is not unusual to have some that do not keep up in production, health and nothing we can do about it. We just do not want to have any of those, one or more, but sometimes, we do.

So--because it could now be an infection of the reproductory tract, I would remove her from her pen, so she can be treated??? Or just has a quiet place?? I hate ever to recommend antibiotics for anything not diagnosed by vet, and which one? So, fate will take its course, or if you have a vet who knows anything about chickens, now is the time to see him/her.
On the other hand, she may pass another soft shelled egg?? But restoring her to reproductive health? Not optimistic.

This response is only by experience of many years with some losses and treatments of over the years from various conditions--just from description if symptoms, even with pictures--who can diagnose correctly?? It is always sad to hear of any birds that are not well--we do not expect this and I am sorry. CJR

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#15262 - 09/16/04 08:13 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


frown
CJR and all-
I thought about infection about 5 minutes ago. I had gone back out to the coop and noticed the 'smell' as I was cleaning up a bit more of her discharge. I have just enough medical knowledge to have saved a ton of money on doctor bills over the years. I helped my Mother with studies when she was in nursing school. I guess you can't help someone cram for exams without picking up a little knowledge yourself.
But now I am rambling because I do not really want to face the truth.
I am not in a position to spend a lot of money or any money for that matter: The spirit is will but the pocketbook is weak. I do live in the country and there is a vet across the street from my work. I will stop in this morning and see if he's experienced with poultry.
I will isolate Belch before I leave. I have made a comfy, quiet place. It's safe and darkened.
I will ask another question...although it seems to have been answered already: Should the vet be unable or unwilling to get involved, is there ANYTHING I can do, try, attempt, take a run at, give it my best shot, etc, etc, etc. I cannot see just throwing my hands in the air and giving up. It is not in my nature and from what I've seen here in The classroom, not in most others either.

I just can't let this be this!

tc

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#15263 - 09/16/04 10:14 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
For certain infections that will respond to antibiotics, injections work fastest for the start and then given orally, can follow. Amoxicillin is one that is thick, and with a plastic eyedropper, you can place a lot on the TOP of the mouth without worry about choking or spilling, and the bird can swallow without a problem. Good luck, TC, CJR

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#15264 - 09/16/04 02:35 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Sandy C. Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 278
Loc: Australia
TC

Have you tried to flush the area of the vent that has the discharge to see if you can clear out the passage way to help her

As CJR has stated ... once an infection has started its pretty hard to get control back ... he is also right in saying that the calcium will not fix this ... for a hen laying soft shelled eggs it can assist her, but if one of those eggs has broken inside her, secondaries may have already started happening

I have found that some hens have the same feed and same sun light... but for some reason can't absorb enough calcium into their systems, and I have found that the calcium supplement and vitamin D (cod liver oil) can really help them

I have seen hens go lethargic and then drop due to a calcium drop in their systems

If your hens reproductive system has been compromised with contamination then her chances of survival are slim ... Good luck TC

Sandy
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Sandy
http://happyhenhouse.proboards43.com

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#15265 - 09/16/04 08:29 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I did isolate Belch this morning. Now let me point out that it was no easy task. I will be adding a new 'Lesson' to my message below.
When I came home this evening Belch was just standing there. She was sort of squatty looking like she was getting ready to do a poo. She's quiet. She has been eating and drinking water. I put a roost in for her, but I think it was too late by the time I figured out the best way to secure it. She is in the back of the 'isolation' area.
There is only one small spot of the 'goo' that I could see.
I am going to check on her now.
Thanks
tc

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#15266 - 09/17/04 09:53 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Belch seems to be doing the same as yesterday. She wants out...for sure. I cleaned out the isolation area this morning and there was the leakage along with greenish chunks. I couldn't tell if it was just poo, but I know I haven't seen anything like it with any of The Collective before. She is eating still, and well. And drinking. I haven't found a vet, but did hear of a 'bird place' which I will call in the morning.
Should I continue to keep her isolated? Something tells me no, but I am afraid it is just my heart going out to her.

TC
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#15267 - 09/18/04 07:00 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Sandy C. Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 278
Loc: Australia
Hi TC

I would still keep her isolated...just in case
The green droppings... could be due to not eating enough and not digesting the bile in the gizzard and its coming out in the droppings

Sandy
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Sandy
http://happyhenhouse.proboards43.com

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#15268 - 09/18/04 07:45 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


This morning Belch is still isolated. She is still eating and drinking, but seems a bit more active. Previously she was hanging out in the back of the isolation area, but came up front today. She actively made an effort to 'get out' and even began to cluck. HOWEVER, it is probably important to note that she has NOT laid an egg or facsimile since last Sunday. One of the benefits of isolation, I suppose, is knowing for sure. But I guess I can't eliminate the possibility she did and ate it, right?
As I was leaving her area, she began to make the loud 'egg annoucement' noise, only it sounded a little more distressed. Is that also a "let me outta here' noise? (and yes, I did return to peak in. No egg.)

Thank you all for 'hand-holding' me through this. I can honestly say I would not have known what to do without you and this site.

TC
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#15269 - 09/19/04 07:45 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


My girl seems much improved this morning. No leakage to speak of, eating well, drinking and really wanting to go 'home'. I will put her in the coop, but should I wait until tonight and slip her in with the rest? Would this help with re-acceptance?

TC
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#15270 - 09/19/04 03:16 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Sandy C. Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 278
Loc: Australia
Sounds like a good idea TC
I am sure you will be keeping a close eye on her, if she gets badly picked on when you return her make sure she doesn't stress out too much over it... it could bring on symptoms again

Sandy
_________________________
Sandy
http://happyhenhouse.proboards43.com

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#15271 - 09/20/04 12:30 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Vitamin deficiency seriously affects egg shells!

Just an update on the improvement in my pullet's performance.

You'll remember I jumped onto this thread to say I had similar problems with a pullet to those Collective's pullet was having.

She is now completely restored. Sandy's hint about vitamin deficiency was dead on - out of date food caused by keeping a small number of birds and a large sack of pellets lasting too long.

The day after I gave her a few drops of cod liver oil, she laid her first properly shelled egg in six weeks, it was exceptionally pale, long and thin, but it had a shell. Over the last week, her eggs have been restored to normal in shell density, shape, size and colour, to the extent that now, it is hard to tell them apart from those of the other hen.

Funny that it only affected one of them, but I suppose individual differences apply to the ability to metabolise calcium in a vitamin deficient environment as well as they apply to other things.

I've PM'd Sandy expressing my appreciation, but I'd like to thank CJR and others for their suggestions too. Two or three heads are better than one, as we say here in the UK.

I hope Collectives pullet recovers as well as mine did.

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#15272 - 09/20/04 08:08 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am very happy for you Clucker. I am relieved to say that I took Belch out of isolation last evening and allowed The Collective to re-assimilate her. This morning she seems just fine.
I don't expect an egg from her for a while due to the stress and all. But there is no more 'leakage', and her poo looks like it should. I would like to be able to say the cod liver oil was the saving element, but I could not find any. I went to the City and the local 'large' feed store. The guy looked at me like I had two heads when I asked where I might find it.
So I only came away with Damerow's The Chicken Health Handbook. I would like to keep some on hand if someone could tell me where to get it. I am thinking it sounds like something I might find in a Health Foods store. I don't know why it's not easy for me to find, unless you consider that I have never heard of it before. At first I was thinking of the spoonful of stuff given to 'Tom Sawyer', then realized that was Castor Oil or some such. Silly me and pardon my ignorance.

I would like to also note something about 'Isolation'. For those who have not had to do it to their 'pets'. It was very hard. It made me feel badly. I could not help but think I was making the situation for my girl even worse. I felt guilty. Her guiet little squawks pierced my mind and pulled on my heart-strings. HOWEVER, it was worth it for her sake. I will not feel badly should I have to isolate any of the girls in the future. If you are in a situation where you must do it for the first time, just do it and get it over with. You, also, will be glad you did. Trust me.

TC
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#15273 - 09/21/04 03:51 AM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Spotted Crow Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 855
Loc: Massachusetts
I'm glad Belch is doing better. I can get cod liver oil at the CVS, a local pharmacy, over here on the other coast. They sell it in gel caps. cut one open and pour it into a spoon, I guess. My girls will eat off a spoon. If not health food store should carry it.
Good luck. another thing to keep on hand to flush vents, might be a vinegar and water or just plain water,if they make those, douche.

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#15274 - 09/21/04 03:00 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Bill Ludwig Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 2582
Loc: Ohio
TC

Cod liver oil can be found at most larger grocery stores.
Your hen "belch" may relapse. She probably stopped egg production do to stress either from infection or the added handling and isolation. When she starts production again this will likely repete itself frown . I hope not and wish you the best...but..it has been my personal experience with similar troubles that it will return.
I am also having trouble with a young pullet right now myself. She hasn't been laying long and I am hoping she will come out of it.

Bill

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#15275 - 09/21/04 05:30 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
Bill, Thank you for your endless patience, and very good responses. If readers would just read?? CJR

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#15276 - 09/21/04 06:41 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Bill - CJR:
Yes, thank you for your patience and guidence. I will probably always be the first to acknowledge your experience while admitting my indebtness.

I wish you the best with your pullet, Bill. Somehow I suspect she couldn't be in better hands.

I did purchase cod liver oil, and will keep it on hand for 'the just in cases'.

I am not certain I understand some of the posts just before this one. If I have missed something, please tell me so I will have confidence instead of feeling uneasy about 'treating' my recovering pullet.

Respectfully,

TC
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#15277 - 09/24/04 09:47 PM Re: Soft-shelled egg....AGAIN...Now what?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh happy day....oh happy day!
10 RIR = 10 eggs collected today!!!
That would seem to be telling me all is well with The Collective.

Oh happy day! smile

Thanks again to everyone for the guidence, patience, and advise.

You all Rock and Roll!

TC
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