Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#17861 - 05/08/03 01:33 AM lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm new to chickens and new in this forum. It seems like a brilliant place for advice and support.

I've had a look at the postings on lice, which I think my chickens have got. They are scratching themselves more than usual, and I got that skin-creeping feeling when I cleaned their cage. I need to use something cheap, and want to use something organic, to help them. Would that be diatomaceous earth? But it sounds a bit dangerous, and unfriendly to other insects. Sulphur? Orange oil and water. I would also like to know how to prevent the lice from coming back.

One of my hens hatched 6 chicks and they all died after a few days. I was away, so I can't be sure, but I'm assuming the lice overwhelmed them. Am I right?

Thank you.

Top
#17862 - 05/08/03 04:47 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Susie Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1902
Loc: Arkansas
I don't know about the lice killing chicks. I've only had a lice problem here once. I used 5% Sevin Dust. Cost me like $5 for the bag and less than half the bag treated my whole flock. I dusted them twice, about a week apart. No more lice.

I haven't ever used DE. I'd think of that as more a preventive, but that's just me. When my birds are being munched on, I want a sure thing to remedy the problem quickly. Sevin Dust did that for me.

Susie

Top
#17863 - 05/08/03 12:34 PM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Susie. What is Sevin Dust?

Local advice is to put wood ash in the places where my chickens have their sandbaths. I'll try it and see what happens. I'd like to use something natural, though I must say I'm not even sure why.

I'll also go down to the farmers' co-op and see what they have there. But most of their stuff is very chemically.

Top
#17864 - 05/08/03 01:18 PM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Susie Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1902
Loc: Arkansas
Sevin Dust is a brand name. The stuff in it is "carbaryl". It has many uses: everything from flea powder to sprinkling it on garden vegetable plants to get rid of pests. I use it on my tomatoes if the bugs are getting out of control.

I like to go natural when I can too. In fact, I'd give natural remedies a try for prevention. But I am willing to cross that line if I already have a problem going -- like the lice on the chickens. The way I see it, they are better off having the problem resolved quickly so in the long-run I didn't want to experiment with natural remedies when I knew I could stop the lice from munching on them immediately with the Sevin Dust.

They'll pick up lice from wild birds so the exposure is always around. Dust bathing helps them keep external parasites in check. But every once in a while I think they need a little help. Same with dogs and fleas. Prevention can work wonders but if my dogs are being bitten, I think it's healthiest for them to get things under control quickly.

Good luck! I'm sure your feed store has something similar that you can use if you decide to give it a try.

Susie

Top
#17865 - 05/25/03 05:01 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dear Susie

Thank you for your advice on treating lice, and the general principle on when to use chemicals and when to go organic. I sprinkled ash in my chickens' dust baths and, I'm afraid, put my head in the sand and hoped it would work. I can no longer pretend: my chickens are scratching and scratching and miserable, and TOMORROW I'm going to get whatever treatment will get rid of those lice. Then I'll explore preventative organic/herbal stuff.

They also have bad scaley leg mite, but I learnt before in this classroom what to do, and so treated most of them yesterday, and will continue until the scales have cleared.

In general I'm feeling a bit panicky about all the care my chickens seem to need. I inherited them from the previous landowner, and have enjoyed having them very much. But it's clear that they can't just look after themselves, and I'm going now to the topic for novices to see what all I can learn. I so very much want to be a good steward to them.

Thanks again,
Karen

Top
#17866 - 05/25/03 05:17 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Susie Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1902
Loc: Arkansas
Karen,

You're just having a run of bad luck. I have had chickens for about 12 years and we've had lice ONE time, never had mites, never had scaly leg mites, etc. Part of that might be luck, but I don't think you'll find yourself constantly battling issues with them in the long run. smile

Susie

Top
#17867 - 05/29/03 10:51 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


OK, the lice stuff I got says its active ingredient is Carbaryl 50g/kg.

It seems ghastly: 'toxic to fish, bees and wildlife', and to be kept out of reach of 'uninformed persons', and 'prevent drift onto other crops', and 'prevent contamination of food and drinking water'. Crumbs!

It's for, or rather against: caterpillars, grasshoppers, worms, crickets, beetles, and so on on lawns. And against: red mites, tampans, and lice on poultry. And also against ticks and fleas on dogs and cats.

Against lice on poultry it says: 'Dust under each wing and the vent'. Is that a good thing to do? (I think I know where the vent is!) And this in addition to dusting the house, floor, perches, nests, nest hay, cracks in walls? Please advise.

What should I look out for as going wrong with such a treatment? (Or am I paranoid?)

Oh thank you.

Top
#17868 - 05/29/03 11:02 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Susie Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1902
Loc: Arkansas
This is the same stuff as flea powder, which people dump all over their dogs weekly. Same as Sevin Dust, which people pour all over their vegetable garden plants. Now, granted, I wouldn't eat a spoonful of the stuff, but I wouldn't worry about toxicity and some of those other warnings.

Pick up a bird, hold it upside down by its feet and dump a little powder under each wing and then around the vent (the rear end) and then put the bird down. It will probably fluff up and shake, which will spread the powder a bit. Good to do this in a well-ventilated area or outside just because that dust will be stirred up for a little while. That's all there is to it. Repeat it again in one week.

When I had to dust my birds for lice, I did make sure and wash the eggs that I brought in for a couple of weeks. It just "felt" better to me to do that. But keeping in mind how many people dump this all over their vegetables in a garden, don't be worried too much about it all.

Susie

Top
#17869 - 05/30/03 04:21 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Chickpine Offline
Chicken

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 149
Loc: Maine
Susie- Just because it's available in stores and "people dump it all over" doesn't mean it's safe!

Diazinon, DDT and other pesticides used to be considered "safe" until they found out the effects of them on us and the environment. frown

KM- Please continue to learn and be concerned about what you use on your chickens! You, your family, your pets and the environment will also be exposed. Here is a web site to help you make informed decisions. http://ace.ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/pips/carbaryl.htm

Yes we must treat our gardens, chickens, pets and ourselves for disease when necessary but we can do it responsibly! smile

Top
#17870 - 05/30/03 04:51 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Susie Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1902
Loc: Arkansas
Oh for pete's sake. Carbaryl is a LONG WAY from DDT!! It *has* been tested for years and years of use. It's not new. There are no surprises in store. The stuff you use on chickens is HALF the strength of what people dump on tomato plants! Half!

Quote:
Susie- Just because it's available in stores and "people dump it all over" doesn't mean it's safe!
Yeah, actually in many cases it *does* mean just that.

Susie

Top
#17871 - 05/30/03 10:15 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Chickpine Offline
Chicken

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 149
Loc: Maine
Susie-
Km is in S. Africa - do they have "Sevin Dust 5%"?

All carbaryl is not necessarily the same. Check out the website.

Just because you and I know the difference in % and can read the bag and directions some people can't/don't.

All I'm suggesting is that people are careful and learn and ask questions.

Top
#17872 - 05/30/03 02:58 PM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Susie Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1902
Loc: Arkansas
If you read this thread, you can see that we have discussed the % and also the brand name issue. You can also see that the product she purchased is clearly labeled for use with poultry. 10% can be used with poultry also. I preferred trying 5% first.

Quote:
All carbaryl is not necessarily the same. Check out the website.
I have already researched carbaryl, thanks.

Quote:
Just because you and I know the difference in % and can read the bag and directions some people can't/don't..
She can obviously read the bag. She came on here and typed up exactly what it said.

Quote:
All I'm suggesting is that people are careful and learn and ask questions.
You're also suggesting that I don't research things and I base my poultry management on "because people dump it everywhere." Anybody can do searches online and read whatever research they want, but most come here to The Coop for anecdotal "what does everybody else do?" advice. That is what I gave. If you want to dump some wood ash on lice, have at it. But Karen is posting in other threads about having birds that are unthrifty and the best advice she can get from her co-op is to give them antibiotics. Her birds need some treatment so I shared with her where I draw the line between going organic and doing something that is fast-acting for the birds' general health. I have raised chickens for a long time and I have modified my management practices over the years. You can share your information and website links without implying that my commonly accepted suggestion is empty-headed and not based on any research on my part.

What alternatives are you offering along with your caveat?

Susie

Top
#17873 - 05/30/03 09:05 PM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


if the birds are getting handled anyway- you can clip(with blunt edged childrens scissors please) a stripe o f feathers off o fthe butt- right undre the vent.
you will see a white crumbs here like bread crumbs stuck on the bases of the fluffy feahters.
this is lice eggs. this will cut the population in half. it will not elimmiate them- but give yyou less baby lice to deal with later.
you still must dust after clipping. be sure to get rid of the eggs- away from the coop

Top
#17874 - 06/02/03 11:57 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you for all the advice.

For now I'm going to use the dust I bought on my poor hens hanging upside down as you described Susie, thank you, because it feels urgent and I feel reassured about the poison danger part. Might toss some on my dog and vegetables too while I'm about it (wink).

Meanwhile I will continute to research friendlier methods of prevention. Thank you Chickpine for the website address, I will start there.

I am way too scared to clip their bottom feathers, Incubator. Really, I have never SEEN a vent in the proposed way before, let alone clipped a stripe around it. Staggering thought. Perhaps in a few years when I've spent more time in The Coop ...

Top
#17875 - 06/02/03 12:27 PM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


The below mix works well for me

1 CUP 7-DUST
1 CUP DE
5 CUPS ASH
5 POUNDS DRY DIRT

This mix can be doubled
To clean dirt LOL just scoop out poop and refill when dirt gets low
Mix this in a small 'kiddie pool' and place were the hens can get to it. They will dust them selfs and pervent new mites for the most part

Top
#17876 - 06/03/03 12:22 PM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Feather Farm for the clever idea of the children's blow-up pool.

Top
#17877 - 06/03/03 01:08 PM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


next time you hold a bird- look one inch belowthe 'exit hole' there are fluffy feathers there. if lice are really bad- you will see what looks like white bread crumbs on the base of the feahters here.
somebirds will have only a few- but your weakest birds will have a lot- like huge crumbs.
they do not rub off- but as feathers are dry and without feeling- you can clip these crumby feathers off. a vast majority ofthe lice eggs will come off with them.
lice have an instinct to lay eggs only here. they will now lay on the stubs.
as for the bird- it is as dangerous a procedure as you gettng a haircut.
tehy do look a little silly walking around with a bare bum tho

Top
#17878 - 06/03/03 01:25 PM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would not use a blow up pool but a solid one, mine is real flimsy plastic and cost like two bucks, if they roll they might pop a blow up pool

Top
#17879 - 07/12/03 09:13 PM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Chicken Mom Offline
Chicken

Registered: 11/28/02
Posts: 89
Loc: California
what is DE?

Top
#17880 - 07/18/03 09:16 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Jocelyn Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1467
Loc: Canada
Another possibility, besides those mentioned, is stinky dusting powder...you know the stuff...Aunt Mable has tins and tins of it that the grandkids bought her at the dollar store. It is made often of talcum powder and that stuff is fine enough to clog up the bug's breathing pores and they die. Powder well, rub in..hold your breath..poor birds will smell like fake roses or some other fake flowers..grin You will need to re powder when the eggs hatch. I notice that the hens also roll in the ash heap...we burn wood...so stinky dusting powder doesn't get them all, but definately thins them out.

Top
#17881 - 08/15/03 10:19 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


What stores do they sell sevin dust at, so I can stock up on it?

Top
#17882 - 08/15/03 10:34 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've never used it and this is just an idea but couldn't you just put some cooking oil on the eggs? This would not poison the birds but it would kill the lice and the eggs wouldn't hatch? Yes/No?
Just an idea.

Top
#17883 - 08/15/03 10:43 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Susie Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1902
Loc: Arkansas
I don't understand the basis for thinking oil will kill the actual lice? And I think it would be next to impossible to ensure you covered every egg in oil - not to mention that a dust bath could quickly thwart your efforts.

As for where to buy Sevin dust, feed stores, garden supply places, home improvement stores, pretty much any store that has a lawn/garden department carries it. I find the feed store to be cheapest.

Susie

Top
#17884 - 08/15/03 11:21 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


The idea was that it could suffocate them? Not necessarily as a total treatment but until you get some proper stuff. When i had lice it took about a week before i could get some lice powder.

Top
#17885 - 08/15/03 11:30 AM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok, thanks for your help Susie, how much should I get if I have over 90 chickens?

Top
#17886 - 08/15/03 01:28 PM Re: lice: cheap and/or organic treatments
Susie Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1902
Loc: Arkansas
I used less than a 5 lb. bag to treat 25-30 birds. That was for both treatments -- you need to do them twice, one week apart. So for your 90, 3 bags should do the trick. Get them real good around the vent area and under the wings.

Susie

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Admin @ The Coop, Moderator2