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#18467 - 06/03/03 01:16 AM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dry ice is definitely the way to go. It is what I use to kill rats and mice for my snakes and frogs. They go to sleep and then die in their sleep. Can't think of a more peaceful way to go. I just use a bucket or trash can and put the dry ice in a plastic bowl on the bottom and add water. They sell dry ice at the grocery store by my house.

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#18468 - 06/03/03 04:41 AM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Chickpine Offline
Chicken

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 149
Loc: Maine
big fat henny-

An FYI, check out using dry ice for killing broilers. Check the processing posts for cont. discussion.

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#18469 - 06/03/03 05:51 AM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Susie Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1902
Loc: Arkansas
I found a website that describes all the various methods we've discussed here for euthanasia. By the way, the car exhaust one is HOT. This is put out by the Center for Animal Welfare @ UC Davis and I think the descriptions (although perhaps not so pleasant to read) are a fair assessment of what one can expect. And if you have to do it, you obviously want to do it quickly and correctly. So maybe this will help as a future reference.
http://animalwelfare.ucdavis.edu/publication/poultryeuth.html

Hope that helps!
Susie

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#18470 - 06/03/03 11:56 AM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Anyone know why it says not to use CO2 on waterfowl?

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#18471 - 06/03/03 12:39 PM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with Janet on this topic...I'm sorry but to me a slow suffocation is not quite as humane a s a gunshot or the ax. I can understand the logic behind the "going to sleep"..but...by the same token an ax blow cleanly and quickly severing the spinal cord (and all related functions) is much more humane. If I'm not sadly mistaken, the spinal column from the brain stem down to the coccyx houses all the nerves that come from the motor neuron sections on the brain..hence the name spinal cord which runs inside the vertabrae and branch out througout the various portions of the spine into the cervical,thoracic, sacral,and lumbar areas of the body. Given the fact that seperating the spinal cord severs all these nerve paths, all life as we know it ceases to function. I'm not talking about a partial seperation of the spinal cord but rather a complete seperation from the cervical area down...like C-1 through C-3. Breathing,heart, motor function cease to exist after seperation at that point.

Just MHO,
George

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#18472 - 06/03/03 02:45 PM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Susie Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1902
Loc: Arkansas
After reading that website I posted, I have to say that the dry ice idea bothers me. Seeing as how you need to have the % just perfect to prevent suffering (debatable), I'm thinking I wouldn't try it. I'm sure we all have our preferences and those who don't butcher birds might be less comfortable with the hatchet method. But in the end I think we have to remember that handling this "hands-off" isn't always best for the chicken. Just because it looks peaceful afterwards doesn't mean it was an easy way to go.

I did find it interesting that the website says taking the head off is acceptable if the bird is stunned first. Like George says, I can't imagine that the bird can feel any pain when the spine is completely severed.

Susie

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#18473 - 06/03/03 03:40 PM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well considering Dr. Okimoto (http://www.uark.edu/depts/posc/okimot.html) reccomended it, I thought it was a good bet HE would know what he is talking about. He does have a bit of experience with chickens considering he works at the Center of Excellence for Poultry Science at the University of Arkansas wink

Thank you Dr. Okimoto for all your help.. smile

I have actually done what he said and I actually have witnessed the process. It is a very peaceful and very HUMANE death.

There is no consious slow suffocation if it is done right. My birds were UNCONCIOUS within 20-40 sec of being placed in the box of CO2 so I doubt there was half the anxiety of being hung up by your feet and having a knife shoved into your skull or having your head cleaved from your neck or having someone dislocate your vertibrae from one another. I have done all these hands on, adult techniques and CO2 was far more humane.. period. Don't pass such quick judgement if you have never seen it work. It was simply the most peaceful death I have ever seen a chicken have.

I did it and witnessed the whole process and it was VERY HUMANE and I am an animal lover, an animal advocate, and an animal rescue volunteer. I would NEVER torture an animal. After reading a few sites and getting some more information, I constructed a kill box and very successfully and humanely killed 2 sick hens and knocked out and then killed one very edible rooster.

And as to getting the concentration of CO2 right.. I guess this might be problem in a large container but a small 1 chicken sized container fills up fast if you prime it and this made the process VERY quick. The box was probably 80-90% CO2 simply from the looks of it. Considering the chemical properties of CO2 it is not hard to fill a small box with it quickly.

But... you do what you see as humane... and I will do what I know to be humane.

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#18474 - 06/03/03 08:24 PM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


CO2 is a very peaceful death. It literally is just like passing out, and then dying without pain.

The waterfowl thing does make sense.

As for killing my prey items, when they are dead they can't bite the snake's skin and tear it, bite an eye blinding it, or bite the inside of the mouth causing feeding problems and infection. If you look at my snakes, they are in perfect condition, no scars.

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#18475 - 06/04/03 06:42 AM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


During the French Revolution, people thought that quick decapitation was humane, which was the rationale behind the guillotine. Then the French chemist, LaVoisier, was beheaded. As his last experiment, he stationed a friend at the guillotine to count the number of times he was able to blink his eyes after his head had been severed. I'm not sure of the exact number, but I'm pretty sure it was up in the teens. There may not be pain, but there could be awareness, which may be more distressing for a human than a chicken, but it's something to think about. Carbon monoxide seems to be the best option, since the brain doesn't register it as lack of oxygen like it does with CO2, so the chicken wouldn't even realize it's suffocating.

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#18476 - 06/04/03 06:43 AM Re: cull by neck pulling?
R. Okimoto Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 1498
Loc: Arkansas
I have gotten dry ice from our WalMarts. I guess some might not carry it or the empolyee didn't know what dry ice is. Other supermarkets in our area carry it too. It is usually in its own insulated ice chest in the front of the store.

Carbon dioxide does not suffocate the birds in the normal sense that they would live for 3 or 4 minutes if you just took away the air. Carbon dioxide displaces the oxygen in the blood and stops brain function by literally poisoning the animal. It is unconscious in just a few breaths, and is brain dead probably in less time than it takes for the brain to die once you cut its head off, because the brain doesn't just run out of oxygen it is poisoned by the carbon dioxide.

What some people worry about is that if the concentration of carbon dioxide is too high in the chamber they claim that there is discomfort for the animal due to the fact that carbon dioxide combines with water to form a weak acid. It can sting the eyes and is like drinking a soda softdrink(carbonated water) and irritates the lungs. This is one negative side effect, but it only lasts for a few seconds. You can reduce this irritation by dropping the concentration of carbon dioxide to 20-30%. This can kill the animal just as fast if you mix it with some other gas like argon to displace the oxygen. Only a well set up animal lab would have such a gas chamber. You could remove the irritation completely by just using argon, but that would be a slow death by suffocation.

I've never breathed the stuff, but I have gotten it in my eyes when I reach down into our gas chamber and it is itchy and irritating. The people that have used this will tell you that in less than 10 or 15 seconds the birds are out of it. Some of them are brain dead so fast that they go into their motor spasasm as if you cut off their head.

You can try ether or chloroform, but as I've said these have their own dangers to you, and I don't know how irritating these are to the birds. There just aren't very many good ways to kill an animal.

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