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#18497 - 06/11/03 07:13 PM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


i agree. there is a lot of ppeople who put a lot of thought in the subject.
the stuff i am reading here- some is heavily researched, some is personal preference, and one topic makes me laugh(thanks- it has been a long time)
this si going to be the biggest issue for many first time poultry raisers- and a help to those of us who seem to end up with the nasty chore all the time...
a good review of butchering methids would be a good addition here!

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#18498 - 06/11/03 08:02 PM Re: cull by neck pulling?
R. Okimoto Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 1498
Loc: Arkansas
Where did Janet's posts go?

The AVMA document can be found here:
http://www.avma.org/resources/euthanasia.pdf

Like I said for some reason it keeps bombing my computer if I try to read it, but I can print it.

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#18499 - 06/11/03 09:56 PM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


When I was at the Beckman Institute at the University of Illinois, a physician was my next door office neighbor. He was part of the team that developed the 3D MRI techniques. We had lunch together most days and talked a lot about gore such as death by decapitation.

He believed that death by hanging, neck breaking (spinal cord scission) in any way, including decapitation, was actually a suffocation death. Hanging, properly done, used to be more acceptable than strangulation because the body can't react to the suffocation. No nerve impulses reach the body from the brain, but the death occurs from oxygen starvation of the brain. However, the eyes 'bug out' in a hanging victim.

The difference between decapitation and (proper) hanging is that blood flow is immediately interrupted in decapitation, while the heart continues to pump blood through the brain of the hanging victim until the muscles starve of oxygen. So, we theorized, that decapitation was a faster death than hanging.

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#18500 - 06/11/03 10:01 PM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


P.S. Gail Damerow says she uses a .22 pistol to put a bullet through the bird's brain (via mouth, if my memory serves me correctly) before cutting the throat.

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#18501 - 06/11/03 11:03 PM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by rokimoto:
Where did Janet's posts go?

I was wondering the same thing. One day she had I think 5 or so post up on this topic.. then none. I had only been able to look at 2 or 3 of her referenced sites. confused

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#18502 - 06/12/03 05:33 AM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Some posts got deleted because of their tone.

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#18503 - 06/12/03 09:06 PM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


There has been a lot of discussion, and I appreciate everyone's input. I suppose I find it almost funny that this particular bird did recover enough to remain, but still is a cull prospect. She will never be 100%, and may have to go, if I find myself short on coop or perch space. But she's so darned sweet, I'd hate to do it.

I have, however, decided for myself that CO2 will be the method I choose. if and when it becomes necessary. I agree with the person who suggested that some of us consider these things more for ourselves and what we can handle, than for the bird. Many of us are especially afraid of causing anything pain. I don't know that I'd ever really be able to tell if a chicken were in pain or not.

We may not all agree how to go about things, but it sure seems that we all care a lot about doing right by our animals. I find that to be wonderful.
smile

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#18504 - 06/13/03 07:58 AM Re: cull by neck pulling?
R. Okimoto Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 1498
Loc: Arkansas
It is a pretty tough job being a moderator. You run a good web site. Janet did have quite a few good sources of information in her posts. She does seem to get a little fiesty, but you get a pretty thick skin in science. Everybody's first reaction to some claim you make seems to be "How do you know that?" or "show me how you know that." That is just how science works. It is the way that you finally get the best answer possible from the available data.

I do appreciate civil dialogue and this is a pleasant atmosphere, but you sometimes can't get to the bottom of tough problems without dissenting opinions. Perhaps we could give the offenders an opportunity to modify or remove the unneccessary verbage from their posts? I would think that once the person thought about it they wouldn't want to leave a negative impression in their posts.

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#18505 - 06/13/03 09:10 AM Re: cull by neck pulling?
BC Breeder Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 434
Loc: Canada
Ron, since you took the diplomatic approach, I'll use bluntness so that the points are very very clear, hehe.

moderator, deleting Janet's posts isn't acceptable and this is one example you cannot deny bias. Janet did an exellent job of pushing the subject to a level of increased enlightenment, forcing each of us to look deeper at our own perspectives. She didn't name call, curse, or include anything in her posts that would be objectional to a family audience. Sure some may interpret her tone as a bit terse, but such is life. First, she was simply responding to such tones and second, this won't be the first time or the last time a child or any of us will be exposed to such a tone. I've seen worse on the family channel. Besides, interpreting written tone isn't always accurate and is an area each of us will differ. Especially when it isn't accompanied with eye contact, you can often only guess about the intended tone. A very weak position from which to moderate without bias.

Your actions have hurt the quality of the info found in this thread more than Janet's actions have. Therefore, censorship based upon tone is a weak position you may want to rethink. Like I have asked you in the past, what is the true purpose of this website? What do you really want to accomplish here? I for one am greatly offended that myself and the audiance here have been denied access to the great references and information that Janet contributed.

I too realize being a moderator is a tough job, one that takes time to get a handle on. One that is usually subjective and often reflects personal style. One of the challanges of a moderator is to make sure that his/her personal ideals don't interfer with the open exchange of on topic ideas. As much as I respect your volunteer efforts, I feel this is a case where you have hurt the flow of information more than enhanced it. Therefore, while you have done a nice job of ensuring a friendly atmosphere, you still need to consider areas of improvement. This being one, IMO.
_________________________
Omega Blue Farms
http://www3.telus.net/OmegaBlue/

Pictures related to my blue eggers can be viewed at:
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#18506 - 06/17/03 12:38 AM Re: cull by neck pulling?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Raceacres:

I have, however, decided for myself that CO2 will be the method I choose. if and when it becomes necessary. I agree with the person who suggested that some of us consider these things more for ourselves and what we can handle, than for the bird. Many of us are especially afraid of causing anything pain. I don't know that I'd ever really be able to tell if a chicken were in pain or not.

smile First I am happy your pet hen is doing better. Second, I am happy all this has actually helped you Raceacres. Since this whole topic was started by you making a hard decision and trying to find a humane way (for you and the hen) to kill your pet hen, I am happy that was accomplished. smile

But since your SuperHen got well and is being a normal chicken now.. LOL!! Funny chickens!! Oh well.. we did learn alot!! smile

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