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#20851 - 11/15/02 11:52 AM Standard bantam weights CJR
Rob Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 783
Loc: Pennsylvania
Jean, I am curious as how you are breeding for size. I bought the 2nd p;ace bird form the Nat. who has good type,color and a near perfect head, especially the comb is nice. He is not oversize. (24 oz.). The 1st place bird was good in color and type also, but his comb was not nearly as correct. But he was much smaller. My question is: Do you think too much emphasis is being place on small birds? Do you place more emphasis on size than type in your breeding pens, or do you aim for a happy medium. Ive made up my mind already, Id rather be 3 ounces over than 6 under.. How do your thoughts run on this? thanks rob

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#20852 - 11/15/02 08:07 PM Re: Standard bantam weights CJR
CJR Offline
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8489
Loc: Montana
rob, Are you talking about bantam Hamburgs?
I am bucking 16 years of a Club that has not understood the Standard and have made up some unwritten rules. Things are changing, but should have advanced some years ago!

Type comes first, no matter what the size is. Bantams should not be "as small as possible"!!!They should be close to the weight set by the Standard. Why is there no low weight limit listed? Because best type will invariably be at the top of the Standard weight. An extra small bird will simply not be in proportion. And you are absolutely right in that a bird that is an ounce or two over (bird may be fat--or just a larger bird) is usually much better type than a very small bird, unless just too long legged--an unforgiveable fault. Very small bantams will have a head too large, comb then is too large in proportion, neck is often too short, bird may be too narrow--tail angle off. Almost impossible to have a very small bird fit the Standard. (Seramas excepted, not even comparable).

As for choosing breeding birds, a bird a little over Standard weight may be a good choice if VERY good type. And he is definitely the choice, if a smaller bird is not as good in points to match the line of the hens. But do not show that bird! Then in next generations, choose the best type again, from birds that mature closer to the Standard weight. To breed top show birds, there will always be slightly "lesser" quality birds, not to be quickly culled, but some retained in the same blood line, for future evaluation and possible need. And there always will be a great one or two to sell for the good price, if you can plan to repeat the hatch.

And rob, I take the scales to the poultry house every now and then, so I KNOW how much those beautiful feathers weigh (almost nothing), which make the bird look larger than his actual weight!! I know each bird individually from egg to sale or breeding pen! Its a great project, these lovely bantams!! CJR

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#20853 - 11/16/02 09:30 AM Re: Standard bantam weights CJR
Rob Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 783
Loc: Pennsylvania
Thankyou for your post Jean. Yes, bantam hams. very few around other than the s. spangled. My standard is old(1974) and calls for a mature weight of 24 oz. deduct 1 point for each ounce over and only 1/2 point for each under. My friend, Don Krahe(a judge of long standing) does carry scales to shows he judges. He says the emphasis on small is having way too much emphasis put on it and he feels some breeds are suffering, but to claim the win, its the way to go. At the national he brought this up to a young judge. I think it is going to have to be stressed by breeders who are in this for the long haul. I agree with your position and will strive for the correct type/weight. Another thing ive noticed is if there are minor cuts for a certain aspect, it is almost completely ignored in a breeding program. Just for instance, toenail color. Too much emphasis on the win, not enough on balance.

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