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#24377 - 05/20/09 03:14 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
RuffEnuff Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 1148
Loc: Australia
In these roosters we see a mixed spread of AR+. Any ideas of why this should be so? Could it be dosage related?

k

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#24378 - 05/21/09 12:37 AM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
Sigi Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1150
Loc: Holland
Ar+ seems not to glue very easy on hackle and saddle (hackle in females), the sex linked feathers.
I am sure there is a dossage effect but by what gene(s)?
I did see red dilutors at work that also affected Ar+, in both gold, het. and silver birds.

As I wrote before, in cocks its very difficult because S/s+ cocks show similar colours although in those the saddle is mostly more yellow from base to tip. Of course I still don't know how Ar+ works.

Yesterday (we're finished with normal breeding, now the experiments) I started another Ar+ experiment with cochin bantams. I've put a SL female to a S/s+ Laced cock. He's phenotypical totally gold, but we know he's hetero.
I want to know how his silver daughters will look like.
I do have an idea, like the double laced silver barnevelders that are created some 5 years ago and they are still very brassy.
I don't know if the S/s+ GL cock carries Mh, I don't think so because our mille fleur cochins have a tobacco ground colour, not red.

Chick down doesn't tell much either.
The cocoapops (serama) have orange (like The orange, very bright colour) stripes next to platinum white stripes. Why should affect Ar+ NOT the 'silver' stripes in chick down?

PS the Ar+ Mh cocks above both have one dose of hysterical mottling as you see. Don't pay attantion to the white primaries so.

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#24379 - 05/21/09 02:48 AM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands
You mean "tabasco"?

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#24380 - 05/21/09 06:09 AM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
Sigi Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1150
Loc: Holland
Tobaco, smoke stuff, light brown. One c.
Sorry...

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#24381 - 05/21/09 03:42 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
RuffEnuff Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 1148
Loc: Australia
sigi i don't suppose you can put up a photo of your cocpop serema baby chickens as i find it hard to see the colour you describe as in my mind it looks like dominant white on eb.

i am very interested in your breeding program and even if i am not replying i am reading. i shall have to reread your last post later today as i have thumper of a headach and it makes my head swim but i will fathom it. what i would love is a photo of your birds that you plan to breed and your aim. i will comment again later in the day when i can think better as i am confused over you having a gold bird that is Ss+.

k

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#24382 - 05/22/09 03:41 AM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
Sigi Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1150
Loc: Holland
Here is such an orange striped chick, very hard to photograph in Februari:


And another one:


And another one:


Here the variations in cocoapop:
Photo made in the US when cocoapop colour started to breed. I'm a 'long distance breeder' so based on photos made from the hens made a pen and this is the result of 3 hens.
The lighter chicks are silver based since I choose one hen which had silver hackle but was overall redish. All hens wheaten based what you can see in the way they are pencilled.
Later from these chicks hens were selected, we prefer single lace but that takes a few years.

I'll post later photos of cocoapop pairs but I think I already did that? Can't remember. Make another thread of it. This is autosomal red, trying to recognize it which is best done on silver based birds.

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#24383 - 05/22/09 03:35 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
RuffEnuff Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 1148
Loc: Australia
i see. wheaten chicks with the normal black smudges changed to chocolate. but i do not expect the wheaten to be changed by any AR or s+ or mahogany as in my indian game until the first flight feathers appear i cannot tell if they are jubilee or dark and in the pekins i cannot tell if the are silver or gold, however on eb i can.

on AR 'glueing to hackle' interestingly i notice this 'glue' must be stickier in different areas of the hackle where the outer edge can be silver in a wheaten yet striped in the middle with red and with out any affect from Pg....me thinks i had better get a photo of this today.

k

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#24384 - 05/23/09 01:23 AM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
RuffEnuff Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 1148
Loc: Australia
here is a wheaten. she is silver and for some reason her hackle is striped in the center with red.



closer:



k

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#24385 - 05/23/09 01:35 AM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
Henk69 Offline
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Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands
That must be remainders of black. wink

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#24386 - 05/23/09 02:14 AM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
RuffEnuff Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 1148
Loc: Australia
here is another one.

Db makes black tailed whites and black tailed buffs.

if on the silver (black tailed whites) the gold is replaced by silver but mahogany and AR are left behind then wouldn't you expect this on wheaten?:





remembering that neither of these birds are dominant white.

and there is no remnants of black in the hackle of the hen. here is a Hf eb ckl with red AND silver:





unfortunatly he is Pg.

k

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