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#27855 - 01/29/08 12:14 PM Exchequer
Ozark Rose Offline
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I'm trying to put together an article on mottling in my flock which has created quite a stir in my grey-matter. When I was first researching my unusual feather pattern here, I began to believe my pattern was exchequer as roosters had white bases to feathers. As I began to hatch more, I had a "proper" mottle pattern show in all homozygous females. Well, I lost my rooster(F1) and the only breeding male(F2) I could find was one of the "exchequers" I had given away, and so I'm back to wondering what/why he has this pattern. I should also mention, in the last batch of chicks from F1 I have a rooster with the "proper" mottle pattern and good shank color.
Now for some intuitive science at work (be sure to add 2 glasses of wine on the backporch and a day off); Can it possibly be that exchequer is simply ER/Db/mo/Id (the addition of Db is what I am considering to remove black)?
1)in a discussion Dr. O. describes Karens Japs as not having a standard exchequer pattern but like silver spangled hamburgs (ER/Pg/Ml/Db/S) with mottled added thread
2)Id appears to inhibit the undercolor & color at base of feathers on ER males (help me here David).
F2 Rooster

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#27856 - 01/29/08 06:57 PM Re: Exchequer
RuffEnuff Offline
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interesting thread you dug up ozarkrose. i was of the opinion it was the E allel that influenced the way mottling is expressed but this he changed my thinking:




it is interesting that there are at least 4 different chick down patterns, unaffected by momo, some effect, lots of effect and almost total effect (white chick with black spot).

in the adults you can see effects like the exchequer leg horn, white faced varieties like those orliffs and evenly mottled birds.

all very confusing to me.

i was wandering if mottling shows on wheaten? if so has anyone any photos? the above pullet is a buff columbian based on wheaten. her colour is not wheaten. i was interested in if mottling shows on the unmodified wheaten base.
k.

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#27857 - 01/30/08 03:48 AM Re: Exchequer
Jocelyn Offline
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Millie pair based on wheaten.


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#27858 - 01/30/08 09:08 AM Re: Exchequer
Norwegian Offline
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I thought this was what Exchequer looked like?:


Here the marks are not only on the tip of the feather, but can appear on the whole feather.
confused

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#27859 - 01/30/08 09:28 AM Re: Exchequer
Moo Offline
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I always thought exchequer was more of a pied type pattern, with some solid black and some solid white feathers.

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#27860 - 01/30/08 10:32 AM Re: Exchequer
Ozark Rose Offline
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I understood Exchequer to be as you describe it Norwegian, on the whole feather whereas mottle is just on the tip. Are these your Ourst birds?
Ruffenuff: I think I am also saying that the e-loci is important to exchequer as it is on ER that Id and Db would work to inhibit black on the feather base. Can anyone who is working with exchequer say what e-loci they have?

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#27861 - 01/30/08 11:01 AM Re: Exchequer
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I understood exchequer to be white with large black patches. Dominant white with mottling.

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#27862 - 01/30/08 11:12 AM Re: Exchequer
Hen-Gen Offline
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Nothing to contribute but enjoying this thread. It would never have occurred to me that Exchequers had Dominant White.
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#27863 - 01/30/08 12:03 PM Re: Exchequer
Mau Offline
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ruffEnuff, that hen is so pretty, she looks like a china ornament.
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#27864 - 01/30/08 12:06 PM Re: Exchequer
Mau Offline
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Clive Carefoot did some work on mottling and showed them exchequer to be allelic or the same as mottling with modifiers like speed of feather growth - his paper is there somewhere.
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#27865 - 01/30/08 12:46 PM Re: Exchequer
Norwegian Offline
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The picture I posted are Orust landrace chickens from Sweden. I've had the breed for some years, so I have some expeience with them. I have also crossed them a couple of other breeds, Araucanas and swedish blackhens.
My guess is that they are E (small possibility of ER) at the e-locus. The trait must be recessive, as all signs of spots disappear in F1s. The crosses with other breeds indicate that Orusts are quite heavily melanized. Still the shanks are clear, but sometimes with small black spots. Orust at least, do NOT carry dominant white. The hackle of the roosters are often more white than the rest of the bird. Expression of exchequer (if that is what it is) is quite varying. At present I have a rooster that is all white, except for some small black spots on the back.

I seem to remember that exchequer Leghorns were in the Standard some years ago, and that in the last british standard there was a picture of an exchequer feather in one of the colour plates?
Is it possible to read someting out of the description there? (Orusts are not standardized)

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#27866 - 01/30/08 01:56 PM Re: Exchequer
Blackdotte Offline
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To me they look like very gay Ancona type mottling, not Exchequer The spotted shank would possibly be due to the Ancona Dermal Inhibitor IdAc .
Anconas are E or ER

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#27867 - 01/31/08 02:36 AM Re: Exchequer
Norwegian Offline
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They are not mottled like Anconas. The spots are on the whole feather. If you have access to the british standard, please check the picture there. Also there are some black and some white feathers (but then I guess that can also happen in badly coloured Anconas?) The Orusts have never been bred for exhibition.

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#27868 - 01/31/08 02:40 AM Re: Exchequer
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Here are some more pics of Orusts:






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#27869 - 01/31/08 02:49 AM Re: Exchequer
Norwegian Offline
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Exchequer leghorns form Feathersite:




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#27870 - 01/31/08 12:47 PM Re: Exchequer
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In 1904 on the property of a farmer in Scotland in a flock of 4000 white leghorn chicks there were four or five with black yellow down. Before 1900 there was crossed only once a black Mincorca to the white Leghorns.
Other word for Leghorn is Livorno. Another breed in the Mediterrian region is the Ancona. There was a lot of trade between the harbours around the Mediterranian sea so exchange of breeds isn't unthinkable.
Suppose one of those Minorcas carried invisible mo and crossed with a white leghorn and two white leghorns both with one 'mo' were crossed etc etc... nobody would notice mo on a white bird.

When analizing the White Livorno, it's dominant white, suppose it's crossed with the black Minorca (which is documented) and perhaps with an Ancona (undocumented) it's not unlikely the Livorno could posses mo.

Shanks: Minorca's have grey/blue, Ancona's have the special Id^a gene so yellow with dermal and epidermal specks or no specks at all so yellow legs.

If that Scotish farmer had cooked those mis coloured white leghorns there would have never been exchequer.

Perhaps exchequer is the result of an over dosis of black from the Minorca, and dominant white is leaky when there are not enough white enhancers present.

Bad exchequers look like mottled blacks.
Good exchequers look like very leaky (black) whites.
Without good breeding exchequer becomes a mottled black.

Exchequer is war between black enhancers and leaking pure dominant white added with mo for some extra 'music'.
An exchequer must be a silver bird.

The pattern on the Norwegian birds is very similar to the Spanish Asturians. Also the sometimes bit red in roosters or 'brassiness' of autosomal red or maybe even S/s+?

Thats what I think it is....

Sigi

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#27871 - 01/31/08 05:01 PM Re: Exchequer
RuffEnuff Offline
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it would be easy enough to test for dominant white however i think they are mottled on black. in my breeding i have some gay birds (over mottled mottleds). i bet if i concentrated on breeding these gay birds together i would get something like these leghorns.

i still ponder these white spots compared to white blotches. the mottled buff columbian pekin has a number of full brothers and sisters, some gay mottles, some well marked, some under marked and spangled (mottled black reds). the mother was a milflur (wheaten based) the father was a spangled (ER based). however i thought the father was a silver as he was black spangle on a white background (split mottle and split gold). however he did not produce one silver chick.


assuming the spangling was caused by Db and Ml then perhaps these exchequers are ER or E, Db, Ml and mo.
k.

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#27872 - 02/01/08 08:45 AM Re: Exchequer
Duck Boy Offline
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I've always thought that the Exchequer colour had solid white and mottled feathers??
Wich gave me the theory that gentically the Exchequer colour was E/E, mo/mo plus modifier genes for "leaky" white feathering(possibly something like rapid ageing white). I've figured "leaky" white feathering since random white feathers are something that can occur in regular Black coloured birds.

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#27873 - 02/01/08 10:05 AM Re: Exchequer
Ozark Rose Offline
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I do not have dominant white in my flock.
I snatched this shot of what I had thought was my "proper" mottled young roo, another F2(please remember he is a work in progress!)
Domino
Domino Juvenile Plumage


And here is my remaining F2, poor pictures, but he has no white bases, fluff is mottled and has sparce mottling. I believe him to be E/eWh or ER/eWh with no Db or Id (eWh as his down had a full white head,no spot)
Eagle
Eagle juvenile plumage

Here is the F1: Mikhail . Do you see the white base on his sickles that appeared at 2yr molt? I had begun to think it was an expression of Mo+/mo but perhaps it is Db?! Here is the P1 Sylvester . It doesn't show clearly but he had white bases to his feathers which was increasing with each molt.

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#27874 - 02/01/08 01:52 PM Re: Exchequer
RuffEnuff Offline
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i have been looking more closely at my birds. some of my pullets that i regarded as gay have a large white spot on their feathers. some parts of the body have more spots than others, these birds seem to have less feathers but wider. other birds have small white spots in larger numbers, more feathers and better placed over the body. some birds can have neater shaped spots and others can have larger spots being rather more like half the feather white. these birds have been selected in the past for small spots all over the body rather than splotches.

i have a wheaten ckl coming through. like all wheatens he was yellow, then grew black wings (like a furness), then his body came in a little dark, then it went white (with still black wings), then he has slowly developed more black. i thought he would be a mottled silver wheaten but yesterday i noticed some red tips to some back feathers. he is still very young and not growing his adult plumage yet. the normal gold wheaten (blackred) mottles tend to be more pied gold and white then developing most of the black as they develop their adult plumage. the above ckl at the moment looks like a normal mottled chick on E/ER. maybe he is a mottled furness?

i find no 2 chickens look exactly alike.
k.

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#27875 - 02/01/08 04:16 PM Re: Exchequer
Sigi Offline
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I always wonder if the breeders select only one of two 'standard coloured' birds for the exhibition cages and have to breed a hundred in all kinds of other mo expressions.
But that's mostly the kitchen secret
I do not have any experience with exchequer but a lot with mo.
In Exchequer the feathers should be marked with whte a lot like ruffEnuff describes in his first part of the text.

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#27876 - 02/04/08 09:43 AM Re: Exchequer
Ozark Rose Offline
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K: do the gay mottles have the large white sopt in addition to the mottled tip?
Found this information Friday Exchequer Standard and COULD NOT find anything in Standards of Perfection. It seems as the undercolor being white is of great significance.
I also found this article on breeding mottled which has some very interesting comments on down types Mottled OEG . I sure wish we knew if his downtype selection method worked. I am actively breeding the F2 blue roo. to a non-mottled hen and am getting 2 distinct down types: 1)what I call party head party head , 2)white eye stipe & white belly Mo+/mo eye stripe down . After reading this article, I plan to keep the type 2 downs and see if they produce F4s with a clean & "proper" mottle.

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#27877 - 02/04/08 06:16 PM Re: Exchequer
RuffEnuff Offline
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i had to take some photos to answer this. that has taken me over an hour by the time i down load and upload etc. now i have to sort my head out.

i agree with sigi, there must be a lot of culls in mottle lines.

i am going to stick to hens here. they are most likely E and ER. the following 3 pullets are full sisters from a wheaten millie fluer mother and a spangled ER ckl

the following is a gay mottled pullet with her full sister beside her, they are the same age:


here is a close up of her back:


here is another full sister, same age:


here is a half sister by the same father:


here is the mother of the above pullet (1/4 millie fluer belgium):


here is what is an unadulterated australian mottled pekin:


all i can say is thespots differ in size and numbers. the roosters often have a lot of white under colour especailly in the hackles. most have a lot of white if not whole white feathers in their footings and flights.
k

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#27878 - 02/05/08 03:38 AM Re: Exchequer
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ruffEnuff:
Thanks for posting the pics.
Your birds are what I would call mottled and not Exchequer. If seen in comparison to the exchequer Leghorns below, I think the differences are obvious and that it is quite clear that exchequer and mottling are not the same. Perhaps they could have common background, or that they express differently because of other factors - that is possible, but remains to be clearified. The pics are from this site, posted by OzarkRose: Exchequer Leghorns


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#27879 - 02/05/08 05:43 AM Re: Exchequer
Norwegian Offline
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Finally found it!
Here's the pic from The British Poultry Standards 5th edition 19997, plate 4, page 11:



The text:

5 A well-chosen example of the irregularity in markings of an exchequer Leghorn female. in this breed the black and white should be well distributed but not regularly placed, and underfluff should be parti-coloured black and white.

5A This faulty feather from the same breed shows a too regular disposition of markings, the body of the feather being almost entirely black and the white markings almost resembling lacing.

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#27880 - 02/05/08 03:20 PM Re: Exchequer
Scratch Offline
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Carefoot said that Exchequer (once said to be due to a recessive gene pi) and Mottling were both due to the mo gene.

After reading this for the first time at about the time my Exchequer male died I mated a spare Ancona male bantam to my Exchequer females and produced all heavily mottled (almost Exchequer)offspring. If they were two separated recessive genes I would not have got any white markings at all. I have mated the offspring to Exchequers and produced birds that look like Exchequers. I have also noticed that the amount of white increases with each moult.

Incidently the chicks have a penguin pattern to start but as they moult they produce whitemarked black feathers in both the black and the white areas.
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#27881 - 02/05/08 05:24 PM Re: Exchequer
Bushman Offline
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Makes sense. I thought as much, but had nothing to back up my gut feeling. Thanks Scratch.
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#27882 - 02/06/08 01:22 AM Re: Exchequer
RuffEnuff Offline
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norweigian you missed the plot.

in my opinion if you select for more white you get a bird that is whiter and whiter. in anconas the mottles are selected for shape, size and even spread.

feather shape and size seem to affect the mottle and so does the E allel and some unknown genes.

i photographed this bird today. she is related to the birds above. she is a hen. if i keep crossing her to roosters that are very white then i should get the exchequer pattern:


what i ponder is why the different sizes, scattering and shapes of the mottle and can anything be guessed from the chicken down colour?
k.

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#27883 - 02/06/08 03:16 AM Re: Exchequer
Sigi Offline
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I stick to the idea of leaking black on an I/I mo/mo bird.
Why? Because you can't explain the large white parts only by mo.
Yes, mo can be pretty hysterious, but differently if you compare birds that became more white over the years.
The colour-stop of mo seems to stop later after which the ground colour is restored. That also explains the more white wings and tail because those feathers grow faster than the body feathers, see also Barred/Cuckoo.

Removing one 'I' by a cross with an Ancona e.g. can explain the 'real' mottles that occur and the loss of the overall white.
Breeding back F1 to F2 should partly restore the Exchequer pheno BUT because of the additon of Ml by the Ancona or other black bird, will cause more dark birds which will give mottles again.

Why can't 'I' be leaking very heavily? Look at the paint silkies, that's 'I' leaking in blotches. That could mean there is a different 'I' allele. Remember Exchequer suddenly occured in a flock of thousands of whites on one place, suddenly.
I dare to believe some of those white Leghorns possessed mo, which you can't see on a white bird. Yes they were very white, whiter than the I/I birds I guess but who cared about that in such a big amount in those days?

I translate the Dutch standard for you of Exchequer:
They scratched the name Exchequer and made it 'gay', real stupid but ok here I go:
Colour and pattern of the rooster and hen: the white should prevale (most of it) over black. The best colour pattern is reached when there are totally white feathers present and almost no completely black feathers, esp. not in wings and tail.
App. 3/5th of the feathers has some black, and on less than half of it the black is visible on the surface. On this pattern there are no end-flecks (like mo so, sig); the gay pattern is irregular and asymmetric when seen from the feather quil, but needs to be evenly spread over the body to give this pattern.
Serious faults: too much black, red or yellow feathers in any part of the feathers.
Faults: Irragular patterning because of one or more feather groups who show more black colour or the presence of large white feather groups without any black in it.

Doesn't this sound (by hobbyists in the standard commission) like leaky dominant white?

Edit: typos

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#27884 - 02/06/08 10:30 AM Re: Exchequer
Ozark Rose Offline
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I think some of us who are seeing exchequer or exchequer-like patterns would also see non-leaky dominant white too if I/I was part of the equation. I have never seen any, but I have seen what I have guessed to be Db or Db-like genes. I am sticking with ER/Db/mo for exchequer.
Curious thought ... I remember discussions as to Db being related to the mealiness of Brown-reds or Mealy Grey (birchen)...hmmm...
Interesting how when breeding the Birchen or Brown Red, and perhaps Mealy Grey, one must use the undercolored for breeding as the pattern will progress to "overcolored" ...hmmm... are there other patterns that must selected in this same way?

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#27885 - 02/06/08 04:00 PM Re: Exchequer
Sigi Offline
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Mealiness appears also on the mille fleur cochin bantams here and that could indeed be Db because I think on that breed the mille fleur is borrowed from the Sabelpoot and I believe that chique mille fleur is a combined pattern: spangled x mottled and when spangled there is Db.... hmmmmm

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#27886 - 02/07/08 01:54 PM Re: Exchequer
Sigi Offline
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I chequed at the Dutch Leghorn Club for the underfluff colour of the Exchequer colour:
White feathers, white fluff.
Feathers with black on it, grey fluff.
Feathers with black on it are partly black.
Means an Exchequer is a white bird.

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#27887 - 02/24/08 12:28 PM Re: Exchequer
Smallholder Offline
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#27888 - 02/24/08 12:43 PM Re: Exchequer
Cranberry Creek Offline
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Your exchequer leghorns look very similer to mine thought yours has more white in the tail and wing where I have some black as well.

The hens however look exactly like mine.

By the way Smallholder I'd like to say that your birds look extremely healthy and well cared for!
I always like to see people take good care of there birds.

I have had a lot of fun with my exchequers, they are always so lively and vigorous when they hatch, and mine have become quite tame.

Roman

When you raise leghorns you sometimes have to be careful what you feed them...corn will make their earlobs yellow.

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#27889 - 02/24/08 02:47 PM Re: Exchequer
Mau Offline
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They are handsome birds, their pattern is very regular, they look very much like “gay” mottled - except the male who looks pied.
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#27890 - 02/24/08 05:42 PM Re: Exchequer
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They are very nice.Some of the better representatives of this variety of Leghorns.Good condition too.Thanks for posting the pictures.

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#27891 - 02/28/08 02:09 PM Re: Exchequer
Smallholder Offline
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This is what a British Exchequer pied looks like

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#98487 - 08/22/11 07:59 AM Re: Exchequer [Re: Smallholder]
Piet Offline
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I agree with Ozark Rose.
There is no I in exchequer leghorns. Is there any body that actually found this?
I think 2 I/i+ (maybe Minorca or Ancona cross)with mottling must have been crossed.
White leghorns carry mo, blue, barring,....
I agree you could make a bad one with I/i+ but don't believe you could make a good one or one that breeds trough.
The difficulty in breeding exchequer with good distribution of black between the white(more white then black)and keep enough black in tails and wings. I end up with birds with to much black all-over or just in the back region (cockerals).
When the body is well distributed they tend to have to much white in tails and wings.
I belief good ones to be CLOSE TO ER/ER Db/db+ momo Id/Id Ml/ml+ s+

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#98685 - 08/30/11 01:33 PM Re: Exchequer [Re: Piet]
Wieslaw Online   content
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Db would make them brown in chick down.

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#98693 - 08/31/11 05:09 AM Re: Exchequer [Re: Wieslaw]
Piet Offline
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No brown chick down in mine...
What if they are E/E, mo/mo, Ml/?
Could there be Db (or Co) in them? Pg?

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#98694 - 08/31/11 05:20 AM Re: Exchequer [Re: Piet]
Wieslaw Online   content
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You can easily have Pg in them(especially if outcrossed to Minorca at some point), it will not do anything in my opinion. If they were on E/E you could probably have problems with yellow legs(it is something I've read, no personal experience on this one)

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#98695 - 08/31/11 05:51 AM Re: Exchequer [Re: Wieslaw]
Piet Offline
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I don't have problems with yellow legs in the exchequers but when crossed to white columbian leghorn(also yellow legs) the hens do have dirty legs( not the cocks) MOmo CO.
mo, CO (and also ML?) I think help clean the legs. And what is the effect of 'whatever is the difference to a normal mottled' on legcolour?
I ALWAYS READ THIS ASSUMPTION THAT LEGHORNS ARE ER nor E because someone tested a few or because they have yellow legs but I am not convinced. Certainly when they have been crossed to eg. Minorca's, ancona, andalusian....

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#98697 - 08/31/11 07:44 AM Re: Exchequer [Re: Piet]
Wieslaw Online   content
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You can test a black bird by crossing it to a pure e+. If their females offspring are totally black , then you have probably E. If they show gold in the hackles , they are most probably ER.(something written by Ron Okimoto which I can confirm in many cases)

Sometimes I think whether this thing with E and yellow eggs it true. I have a suspicion, that yellow legged blacks may have something additional that helps them to fight even against E. But up to now it is only a suspicion.

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#98714 - 08/31/11 05:11 PM Re: Exchequer [Re: Wieslaw]
Poultch Offline
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Originally Posted By: Wieslaw


Sometimes I think whether this thing with E and yellow eggs it true. I have a suspicion, that yellow legged blacks may have something additional that helps them to fight even against E. But up to now it is only a suspicion.


if they dont have mottling or barring then they probably aren't on E. Maybe dominant white, but haven't recent discussions dismissed this also?

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#98720 - 09/01/11 04:04 AM Re: Exchequer [Re: Poultch]
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Piet, do I suspect correctly that you are trying to make Mille Fleurs on wheaton? It took me longer than I'd thought to move mottles 'on another e-background' and more chicks. There is a linkage between e-locus and mottling of ca. 23 cM or so. So you have to hatch 4 times more chicks just to come up on 'Mendelian' level.

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#98723 - 09/01/11 07:17 AM Re: Exchequer [Re: Wieslaw]
Piet Offline
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Loc: Belgium
Yes Wieslaw, you are almost correct these crosses where an attemt in making siver millefleur(preferably on eb or split eb/eWh)
The first problem I encountered was that my exchequers are gold.
I've read that linkage thing too but the calculations didn't make much sense to me.
Now I am crossing this silver columbian hen to red millefleur. That should bypass this linkage. I only really need the silver part.
By the way my main project is porcelain from millefleur and e+lav.
I assume the linkage won't be a problem here either.
It might even help: mottled F2 will most likely be eb or eWh.
Does this make sence?

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#98737 - 09/01/11 03:04 PM Re: Exchequer [Re: Piet]
Wieslaw Online   content
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It depends on what your goal with silver millefleur is, are they supposed to be on wheaton or eb? Are your red millefleur German? They look very dark to me, they may be on eb. It is often said that mottling on eb gives better black bands.
I got one orange millefleur this year, from scratch, she's half duckwing, don't know what the other half is.




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#98748 - 09/01/11 04:38 PM Re: Exchequer [Re: Wieslaw]
Piet Offline
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I think I have both eb and eWh in my millefleur and maybe one or two with e+ in them.I prefer eb.
My chicks hatch from almost black to buff. none have the e+ stripes in the back.I think there is Mh in them.
Some are on Co and I supose some on Db. I have birds from 3 different strains.

I haven't seen any silver or lav millefleur in leghorn. They aren't recognised. Thats why I am trying to make them myself.

I am happy but surprised that the S/s F1's are already white( not yellow, no red shoulders...

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#98751 - 09/01/11 05:06 PM Re: Exchequer [Re: Piet]
Poultch Offline
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Registered: 01/25/10
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Originally Posted By: Piet


I am happy but surprised that the S/s F1's are already white( not yellow, no red shoulders...

Piet, thats a sure sign you have Co in the mix, good luck with your project, keep us updated!

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#98833 - 09/05/11 04:32 PM Re: Exchequer [Re: Poultch]
Piet Offline
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Loc: Belgium
F1 exchequer male X white columbian female:
Cockeral:

Hen:

All black with red throat but black neck

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#100425 - 11/30/11 04:46 PM Re: Exchequer [Re: Piet]
Piet Offline
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Registered: 10/07/10
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Hello Wieslaw....
I suspect the creation of beautifull millefleurs on silver to be a lot harder then on gold/red.
I think on red the red enhanchers and certainly Mh help a lot in cleaning up the ground colour and creating the black band/flower.
On silver a black band is not enough. You really need some spangling...Fight against red leakage...Balance the columbian restriction and I think the hardest thing is to balance the E allele with the melanisers!
What is your opinion?
Are there any experienced breeders in silver millefleur around ?
How does any F1 between gold and silver millefleur look like?

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#100439 - 12/01/11 03:00 PM Re: Exchequer [Re: Piet]
Wieslaw Online   content
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I cannot answer your last question, never did the cross.
Your next last question: there is a man in Belgium who has very beautiful Sabelpots in silver mille fleur. He should know something about them.

http://www.fodbefjerede.dk/velkommen_til_siden_om_fotbefjer.htm

Click on Fotbefjeret/Sabelpot(left), and then Bilde side 2(center)

If you start with birds who do not have autosomal red, then you do not have to fight with red leakages.

I do not believe in combination spangling/mottling. The reason for this is, that mottling usually does not 'attack' each feather, thus you can have feathers ending both in black and white.





Edited by Wieslaw (12/01/11 03:08 PM)

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#100443 - 12/01/11 04:27 PM Re: Exchequer [Re: Wieslaw]
Redcap Offline
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Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 477
Loc: Germany
There are at least 13 (one with bearded birds) breeders in Germany, too
http://federfuss.de/2004/zuechteradressen.htm
Here a hen with beard
_________________________

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#100449 - 12/02/11 04:47 AM Re: Exchequer [Re: Redcap]
Piet Offline
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Registered: 10/07/10
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Loc: Belgium
Yes but I think only somebody that did cross between red and silver or made silver from scratch could help me on this. I don't won't to outcross either.
I have a F2 cockeral that is clearly mottled in the feathers that are black but the white feathers aren't showing any black.
When you ignore the mottling he is silver columbian apart from mossiness in the back and yellow leakage in this area.
I have several F1 red millefleur cock x silver columbian hen.
Most of these are very clean silver colubian one or two with black in the back all without gold leakage but none with a single trace of mottling.
I think I should use the mossy(dirty back) ones and maybe cross to red millefleur.
I was also thinking of using the exchequer looking pullet withe grayisch shade in the feathers like Wieslaw's black.

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#100450 - 12/02/11 05:17 AM Re: Exchequer [Re: Piet]
Wieslaw Online   content
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Check my thread Mottling and linkages. According to some experiments mo-locus is linked to e-locus by ca. 26 cM. So if your red millefleur is on eb and your wheaton is recessive, you would need to hatch 64 chicks to get 1 homozygous recessive at e-loci and mottled in F2(hope I did my math correctly)

http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=88951#Post88951

I also think that mo on eb might give better black bands than on wheaton(but no personal experience though).

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#100453 - 12/02/11 05:52 AM Re: Exchequer [Re: Wieslaw]
Piet Offline
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Registered: 10/07/10
Posts: 257
Loc: Belgium
Wieslaw,
I prefer eb in red but my reds are eb, eWh and maybe some on e+ with alot of them split eb/eWh. That is what I assume.
They also carry Mh.
I suspect the clean F1 cockerals to be EwhEwh and the mossy ones eWh/eb? Or impure columbian?
I agree on the black bands being larger on eb but there also are melanisers involved...

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