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#34342 - 03/08/06 07:07 PM mutations bring several changes
Rob2 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 3068
Loc: Pennsylvania
I didnt know how to word the heading?
I couple of color mutations have occured in our black Hamburg line, pure Hamburgs. After some inbreeding to set the line, we have some whites and some kind of blue/lav/smoky? colors being produced. These are from very good brood stock with very good heads and w general type. The combs on the new colors are not good, flat spikes and large(as were the original birds in the project), the wing carriage is a bit too low, (again as in the original matings) and the cocks with the white and odd colorhave attitude problems. id like to kill them but cant.
There must be some kind of link to the new mutation and the faulty combs , wings and etc.? Anyone else note this kind of tendency?

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#34343 - 03/09/06 01:40 AM Re: mutations bring several changes
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands
I think you had some visiting genes. wink

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#34344 - 03/09/06 04:29 AM Re: mutations bring several changes
T. Adkerson Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 895
Loc: Missouri
Rob,

Sounds like the comb modifiers and the color gene that are causing the problems are recessive and closely linked. In order for the recessive traits to show the male and female have to be carriers and have at least one recessive gene for each trait. The recessive genes expression must vary in order to get the white to blue color. And that is not unusual for genes that are diluters of color.

There are other possibilities but the recessive linked thing is the easiest to determine through testing.

The only way to determine this would be to do test crossing.

Tim

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#34345 - 03/09/06 04:49 AM Re: mutations bring several changes
Anonymous
Unregistered


In one of my projects, to obtain a specfic color,
we put a Black Male over a White Female.
The results are:
1/4 black and 1/4 white, which breeds true when bred together.
The remaining 50% are called bluegrays/splash or sports.The splash are important because when cross with black =Blues.
My original birds are from within the breed.
Usually this also gives exceptional type in the offsprings.

This is just my experience.

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#34346 - 03/09/06 06:01 AM Re: mutations bring several changes
Ahab's Ghost Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 281
Loc: Iowa
many years ago, I was into Birmingham Roller pigeons in a big way. I produced a very unique colored bird, out of a pair that could not have given that color. So, to make a long story short, I was convinced I had a new mutation. After 3 generations of breeding the new color, it finally segregated into two very common genetic traits!! Lesson learned? Patience grasshopper, not all is as it appears!! Parentage is rarely positive!
Also, I collect sightings of mutants that appear in the wild. After 20 years of intensive observation and hunting, I have 7 or 8 known variants cataloged. 25% of which are probably simply congenital anomolies, not mutants. Point is that new mutations are fairly rare.

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#34347 - 03/09/06 06:29 AM Re: mutations bring several changes
Rob2 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 3068
Loc: Pennsylvania
I kind of assumed it is due to recessives, not a mutation, just couldnt word it properly!. It is interesting tho that the poor combs would be linked to the different colors. These didnt occur until after several gens of inbreeding, which may have pulled up genes from another breed entirely from many generations past which none of us are aware of.
I do know recessives can linger forever, after 35 years of breeding a certain strain of Sumatras color in the hackles will appear once in a great while due to the makeup of the family originally.

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#34348 - 03/09/06 05:44 PM Re: mutations bring several changes
Ahab's Ghost Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 281
Loc: Iowa
rob, what kind of numbers are you raising? It would be interesting to pursue the causes of the oddities, but who has the time!

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#34349 - 03/09/06 07:00 PM Re: mutations bring several changes
Rob2 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 3068
Loc: Pennsylvania
This year, not too many, never a whole lot. These birds reproduce in kind, from 50 raised 25 can show(maybe more), thats in the Hams and Sumatras, not the Rocks. Rocks are difficult as to color and there is a split wing problem , mostly eliminated now.
we are breeding the black Ham male to his blu/whatever daughters this year(a trio)and the white cock is going to some white females derived from silver spangleds. I dont really want the blues, would rather persue some excellent whites, they are standard

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