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#35669 - 02/25/05 06:33 AM longtails & sikver genetics (duckboy)
Rob2 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 3068
Loc: Pennsylvania
I saw your inquiry at TPC re: this topic. I dont know the entire genetics of silver but I do breed them, rather, I am just starting with the silver duckwings. I will know the genotype soon!
the longtails have (Gt) which allows for the continual growth of tail and saddles, and (mt) which is non moulting in some feathers. there is also a gene for multiple fesathering which allows more feathers to grow at the end of the back and beginning of the tail head. You can see and feel the gob of feathering at that point. there is some thought that the non moulting gene has some deliterious effects and could cause weakness and shortened life span. Brian Reeder has done much research re; this topic. There is a lot of work being done on the longtails and more is being learned all the time. I think that the more dedicated breeders in this country will be way ahead of the game in a few more years than the Japanese were able to do in hundreds of years.
My original intention for my longtails was to just run loose and be ornaments for the gardens but they are taking over my breeding interests, they are fascinating
I think my bantams could be taken in a couple of directions, they seem to have proto Onagadori genetics, the long feathers which are very thin with continued blood feathering. I am not dedicated enuff for that direction tho. I will persue a more Phoenix like type with the wider geather, the slate legs and the white ear lobes. also a new line of SumatraXPhoenix line with red lobes and a pea comb but not as in Yokohamas.

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#35670 - 02/25/05 07:14 AM Re: longtails & sikver genetics (duckboy)
Duck Boy Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 278
Loc: Canada
Thanks for the genetics on the long tail trait, rob. I feel kind of dumb here because after I offered to help roosterron with his leg colour problem, I went to look for my notes on chicken genetics and haven't been able to find all of them. Just my luck, long tail and silver colour were some of the notes I couldn't find. I still have my notes on leg colour but without knowing the genotype for silver they are not much help, since some genes that produce colour affect leg colour also. Right now I'm looking all over the house and on the internet for them. Thanks again for the long tail genes. duckboy
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#35671 - 02/25/05 02:44 PM Re: longtails & sikver genetics (duckboy)
Rob2 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 3068
Loc: Pennsylvania
There are a couple sites dedicated to longtails: Strut Your Stuff,,,Longtail Breeders and Enthusiasts,,,,I think they each link to others,,, there is also Marc kings excellent site on longtails and longcrowers. Go to MSN groups and search under hobbies,, try a google search for longtail fowl and some will pop up.

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#35672 - 02/27/05 12:28 PM Re: longtails & sikver genetics (duckboy)
Duck Boy Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 278
Loc: Canada
Hi, rob. I emailed Brian Reeder and he was able to tell me the genotype for the silver colour. I've found some of my notes but some are still missing. I should be able to help out roosterron now with what I have. Thanks again.
duckboy
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#35673 - 03/03/05 12:21 PM Re: longtails & sikver genetics (duckboy)
Kurro Offline
Feather

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 33
Loc: Spain
Well silver usually is e+ e+, S S

e+= wild-type
S= silver and itīs sex linked

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#35674 - 03/03/05 02:10 PM Re: longtails & sikver genetics (duckboy)
Rob2 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 3068
Loc: Pennsylvania
OK , then whats gold?as in duckwing (E+) and (E+ and E+S are used to make gold.

Another thing Idont grasp is gold has a thin black line thru the hackles in males and females; gold duckwing males have clear hackles but the females are supposed to have the black; is the standard wrong? I am trying to breed my duckwing hens with no black, i still get a few. Then it shows in the males too?

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#35675 - 03/04/05 06:37 AM Re: longtails & sikver genetics (duckboy)
Duck Boy Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 278
Loc: Canada
I'm thinking that gold would be e+/e+. But duck genetics are my speicalty not chcikens so I may be wrong. I also think that there has to be some difference in genes between the colours with striped hackles and non-striped hackles.
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#35676 - 03/04/05 01:58 PM Re: longtails & sikver genetics (duckboy)
Kurro Offline
Feather

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 33
Loc: Spain
Well,
gold is = e+e+ ss ,with stripes in the wing feathers and hackles in male and female.There maybe two diferents types one dark and one dark too but a bit more clear (in my wild type Utreranas), I think maybe lv (lavender gene) or other which modified red.Dark must be dominant on dark a bit more clear as I can see when I breed my flock.
EE ss(E+E+ ss in the actual nomination) is another gold too but has not good stripes at wing in the male, male and female has red with stripes at hackles, female is black. If male or female has black at hackles then they have the Ml gene.
Anyway you may have some graduation if you have Ee+ ss for example, or if you have e+ eWh ss....

The standar is diferent between birchen , black red, brown red, silver duckwing , yellow duckwing or golden duckwing but this are the genes in play.

Do you know the gene which change yellow duckwing in golden duckwing?

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#35677 - 03/05/05 10:36 PM Re: longtails & sikver genetics (duckboy)
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2807
Loc: Australia
BBRed:............ e+/e+ s+/s+
Silver Duckwing:. e+/e+ S /S
Gold Duckwing:... e+/e+ S /s+

I don't know if it has been determined formally the genetic differences between stripe hackled e+ (eg Light Brown Leghorn) & non-striped hackled e+ (BBRed OEG) roosters. Jeffrey listed the OEG non-striped hackled e+ genotype as having "a factor for black striping in hackle and saddle of male lacking". From memory, I think Dr O may have mentioned the lack of hackle striping as the "wild type", ie not a mutation, suggesting the non-striped hackles is found in Red Jungle Fowls. But Jeffrey is saying the opposite, ie striping is the wild type, as found in Red Jungle Fowl (Red Jungle Fowl at Feathersite have some variation in amount, but all seem to have some striping- would need to rule out domestic crosses). Regardless which phenotype is the mutation, it seems from Jeffrey's OEGB book that the non-striped e+ roo is a complex trait, as not a simple matter of dominant/recessive breeding.

Wheaten roos tend not to have the striping, or reduced amount. Anders has mentioned to me that exhibition Wheaten (eWh/eWh) or heterozygous (e+/eWh) roos may be placed in in BBRed Game classes at shows. If the phenotype fits the Standard, it doesn't matter what the genotype is. So some exhibition BBRed cockerel lines may not even have the e+ gene (or heterozygous).

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#35678 - 03/06/05 06:53 AM Re: longtails & sikver genetics (duckboy)
Duck Boy Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 278
Loc: Canada
If the genotype for Gold Duckwing is e+/e+,S/s+ then this meens that you can never get Gold Duckwing coloured hens, since the Silver gene is sex-linked. Are you sure there isn't different gene being used. Just a thought, but maybe some of the genes that are used for the Red Shouldered colour like on Yokohamas.
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