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#46516 - 01/19/07 06:43 AM Re: Nearing the hatch (gosling died at hatch)
Ducks-n-Geese Offline
Chicken

Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 120
Loc: Louisiana
O.k. Thanks. Was it "supposed" to have pipped the air cell side? Or does it not matter? It still hasn't pipped any other part other than the original pipped area, which is on the side opposite the air cell side. I think that is what threw me off... I assumed it would pip the air cell side since I saw the beak in the air cell.

I guess I'm just a nervous new mother smile I'm going to let nature do its work for now and sit back and see what this baby can do on its own.

Thanks!

Jennifer

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#46517 - 01/19/07 08:49 AM Re: Nearing the hatch (gosling died at hatch)
Ducks-n-Geese Offline
Chicken

Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 120
Loc: Louisiana
It died. frown It had a huge tumor in between its legs. I figured something was up with its lack of what should have been a normal "piping".

Thanks for the help. I'm disappointed, but glad it isn't suffering. My kids are going to be devestated. But this will be a good opportunity to discuss life and death.

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#46518 - 01/19/07 10:37 AM Re: Nearing the hatch (gosling died at hatch)
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8442
Loc: Montana
Was the "tumor", yolk that had not yet absorbed into the abdomen? These little ones have a navel and that is where it would have been attached and eventually absorbed into the abdomen. This doesn't happen until about the 18th day for chickens, so I am guessing that the little fellow was not "finished" when he pipped. Any time there is blood, the baby is "not finished". There is a skill to stop any bleeding, if you opened a vein too soon. (carefully pulling back the bleeding membrane against the shell and holding it there until it dries.) Then let the egg sit another 12 hours or more before trying again.
There are so many things that can go amiss with artificial incubation--and I am sorry that this special one was not successful. Yes, it is a good chance to talk about it with the children--life's beginnings and endings. More than one egg is usually a more successful arrangement. I believe there is communication between eggs, day or two before hatching--and can be encouraging to them, within the shells! Do try again, when you can and plan for success. CJR

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#46519 - 01/19/07 10:42 AM Re: Nearing the hatch (gosling died at hatch)
Jrsygntbrdr1 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 2601
Loc: Arkansas
Was the "tumor" pinkish and enlarged to a yellowish color with some veins? If so, it was probably the yolk sac. The yolk sac is absorbed through the navel which is inbetween the legs of the birds.

What position was the egg in during incubation? CJR is right, SO many things can go wrong with artificial and even natural incubation that it's hard to narrow down what happened. I urge you to try again as well. It is very exciting when one does hatch out. You mentioned you had another egg, are you going to try to incubate it as well?

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#46520 - 01/19/07 11:20 AM Re: Nearing the hatch (gosling died at hatch)
Ducks-n-Geese Offline
Chicken

Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 120
Loc: Louisiana
I thought about it when it happened, and not knowing what the yolk sac looks like, I don't *think* it was the yolk sac. When I opened it, what came out was like intestines (do fowl have intestines?)and the surrounding tissue. Does that sound like the yolk sac?

My friend was here during all of this and while she had never hatched a goose before, she has hatched chickens and quail and she thought is was unlike anything she had seen before.

I *think* I saw the navel below the "tumor". But I can't be sure now. (I buried it).

Oh, I beat myself up about it.... I killed it, ya know.... but I guess when I try to add it up.... it pipped and never progressed and for about 18 hours it just sat there doing nothing.. making no attempt to get out....

If it was the yolk sac (in which case I really would have killed it, right? It's o.k. to say the truth... I need to know for next time...)... I'm trying to figure out how to explain it.... this "tumor" was part of the stomach... it wasn't something that was externally attached...that could have been removed... it was attached to and growing out of the stomach.

My friend is still here and she just said she's never seen a yolk sac that big in relation to the bird. She's still questioning what it was.

Like you both said... I may never know what it was. And it's over now. But I would still like to know for next time.

The other incubating egg was one I got in the mail from Ebay. It was doing well when candeled, but today it appeared that it was "sloshy" inside and I couldn't see the embryo today. It appeared like the yolk was liquified and not stable. So I don't hold out much hope for that one. I know CR says don't waste time and money on mailed eggs and I'm starting to agree.. the other one from Ebay was a yoker (had bought 2 seb eggs).

The last egg I just put in two days ago and is from my goose (this would be the sibling to the one that died).

At any rate, thanks so much for the help.

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#46521 - 01/19/07 01:10 PM Re: Nearing the hatch (gosling died at hatch)
Jrsygntbrdr1 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 2601
Loc: Arkansas
Is there a way you could post a picture, or even email one. The yolk is attached to the intestines. When my first goslings hatched out, I completely agree with what she says. The yolk IS huge in comparison to the bird. I personally had never seen any yolk that large in a bird.

I've never used hatching eggs from the mail, so I wouldn't know about that. I was going to, then found some breeders I am happy with. If they ever run out, then I may try it or find another person that I can use.

The thing is to not beat yourself up about it. If the bird pipped at the wrong end, it probably would not have survived anyway. Also, it seems as if the bird may have hatched too soon. What was the temperature, humidity, and position of the egg while it was incubating?

Sorry for your loss...

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#46522 - 01/19/07 02:36 PM Re: Nearing the hatch (gosling died at hatch)
Ducks-n-Geese Offline
Chicken

Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 120
Loc: Louisiana
I'll try to post pic later. Based on your post, I'm starting to think maybe it was the yolk. Damn. The temp was right below 100F, but I used two incubators.... a Brower tophatch at first and then the Brinsea that I bought. The brinsea was *much* more precise that the Brower. I ran it dry for 2 reasons: a) a Seb breeder in my area recommended it based on his experiences and b) here in Louisiana it has been 100% relative humidity for more days than not over the last month. I guess I'm going to have to play with it and see what works best for me. (well, I added humidity when I stopped turning the eggs).

I always made sure the large end of the egg was up and I turned it at least 3 times a day.

I'm open to the possibility that I killed it, or at least hastened the end for a sick gosling, and that maybe I need humidity next time.

Gosh, this gets confusing! I wish my goose had just sat on the egg!

Thanks again for your help troubleshooting... I *really* appreciate your time!

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#46523 - 01/19/07 03:34 PM Re: Nearing the hatch (gosling died at hatch)
Ducks-n-Geese Offline
Chicken

Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 120
Loc: Louisiana
I am putting aside the shame and embarrassment I feel about today so that maybe someone else can learn from this, if this is indeed a yolk sac and if I did accidentally kill this dearly-wanted gosling.

Warning: there is a blurry photo of a dead gosling at the end. (I only took one photo and naturally it is blurry).

At my friend's insistence, I did try to help it out eventually, and stopped every time I saw blood. She kept saying it was a small amount of blood and that it didn't matter... she had done this same thing when hatching some of her chicks and quail. I kept saying that I read on the net that blood means stop... which I did... but she kept insisting I help it out... that it had been too long.. that it wasn't moving like it should.. that it wasn't scratching the egg... and I figured this was my first time doing this and she must know what she's talking about.....

*sigh* No sense blaming myself for listening to her... or blaming her....we were trying to "help"... It died and then I pried it out of the rest of the shell.... hence you can see blood.

Here's the initial pip in the incubator:


And here's when I first saw blood when helping out:



And here's the blurry pic of the dead gosling:

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#46524 - 01/19/07 04:04 PM Re: Nearing the hatch (gosling died at hatch)
Jrsygntbrdr1 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 2601
Loc: Arkansas
Please, don't blame yourself. It happens to all of us. I think that you should, however, switch positions of the eggs. The goslings will move toward the side of the egg which is facing upwards. Hence, the pipping on the topside of the egg. Maybe having the egg "slanted" upwards with the air cell (large end) at the highest point. The key point is to learn from mistakes and try to use that lesson learned to help the next gosling should the need arise.

I say that next time, listen to your friend's advice, but you should determine how you want YOUR eggs to hatch. If you feel it isn't right, then don't do it. I can "feel" when it's right to help a chick, but that took ALOT of messups.

I'd allow the next gosling to struggle for 12 hours and then help. If you can visibly see the gosling wasting away, such as peeping is getting considerably less, or the chick is turning "pale" then you may want to gently help. I'm sorry for the loss, but sometimes the best thing to see this as, is a lesson. It will help you as you continue your hatching!

Good luck, and I am sorry for your little gosling. The main thing to think about is, it wasn't your fault. You may also want to make sure that the humidity is right in the incubator. Changing the position of the eggs may also help with the next time. When the goslings begin pipping through the correct side of the egg, then you can move the egg into a more "natural" position. I just make sure the large end is always more elevated than the rest of the egg.

Mikaela

Yes, the protruding sac is the yolk sac. It wasn't absorbed like it should have been. I would guestimate that it would have taken another 6-12 hours for the yolk sac to be absorbed enough for the gosling to hatch.

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#46525 - 01/19/07 04:21 PM Re: Nearing the hatch (gosling died at hatch)
Ducks-n-Geese Offline
Chicken

Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 120
Loc: Louisiana
Thanks so much, Mikaela. I hope next time is better for us all!

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