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#65633 - 01/12/06 11:59 AM Isn't this NAIS unconstitutional?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Doesn't the NAIS program violate a grey area of the "searches and seizures" amendment of the US Constitution? I'm not a lawyer, but isn't anyone looking into that?

Also, if this program is so crucial and important, why is it initially being introduced as voluntary? Are people being coerced into participating? It seems that if a legal issue is currently unresolved regarding it's implementation, then any voluntary participation would mitigate the issue. If people are uncomfortable with this program, they should not sign up.

Personally, I think that a NAIS-type program is probably necessary in our country but my guess is that it violates the US Bill of Rights. For me personally to be OK with something like NAIS would require that written legislative guarantees be incorporated to ensure no financial burden be imposed which could severely impact the poultry hobbiest or the fancy. Otherwise, it seems very likely that yearly cost increases and impact can be imposed to slowly choke off people's poultry interests and livelihood.

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#65634 - 01/12/06 02:12 PM Re: Isn't this NAIS unconstitutional?
Rob2 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 3068
Loc: Pennsylvania
Well, the way I see it is that our govt. has stepped far beyond the reach of its intended duties. The gun thing of the last administration really woke me up and caused me to learn more about government and especially the constitution. When you begin to study the Federalist and the anti federalist papers you get a eye opening. Anyhow, this probably fits under the govts. responsibility to protect the good of the whole, we(not meaning ME) expect out govt. to protect us from foreign armies and other threats which can effect our national well being- a possible pandemic could be considered a national threat by reasonable people. Due to greed, sefishness, etc., individuals may not be willing to "do the right thing". So we have demanded the govt. set price contols, make cheap food, fuel, medicine/health etc. available. Thus the idea to protect the nation from a disease(s) which could lay waste to several industries and cause billions of dollars to be lost. The idea with NAIS is to assure other nations will purchase our meat products as a short term + while also making it easier/quicker to pin down disease.
I really thoink the basic idea is sound, but, the presently planned operation stinks, is unworkable and would be VERY expensive to undertake. IF it is infact to benefit the nation, then the nation(all taxpayers) must contribute to the cost. Until then, they can kiss my___. There are those who are spreading false and just wrong info, those who dont have a grasp, and the everyday nutballs ready to run to other countries, call our leaders Fascists and generall act silly. Boy, they really help the cause ! It is the show people who will be most effected as they are most likely to make the most movements of animals. There reall needs to be some better system to enable this aspect of the industry w/o their being unduly harmed.But they must also bear more responsibility than those who rarely move animals. We are gonna have to define better our right to a pursuit of happiness!! It is my feeling that we should all just resist this effort untill a better working plan is designed, cant throw us all in jail.

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#65635 - 01/12/06 07:30 PM Re: Isn't this NAIS unconstitutional?
Anonymous
Unregistered


In my opinion, the government has no constitutional right to require that I obtain a site ID number for purposes of tracking my poultry pets. They have no constitutional right to require that I place a electronic tag under my poultry pet's skin for tracking and identification purposes. They have no constitutional right to require that I report movement of my poultry pet to a poultry show and back home again.

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#65636 - 01/13/06 05:21 PM Re: Isn't this NAIS unconstitutional?
B. Buckbee Offline
Feather

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Wisconsin
musaland,
I agree with all your statements. Here they made it manditory Jan 1st, so I complied and now have a premice ID#. Either register or face fines,what choice do we have? It's the last thing I wanted to do!

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#65637 - 01/13/06 10:24 PM Re: Isn't this NAIS unconstitutional?
Rogo16 Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 439
Loc: Arizona
The government is changing the constitution as they go. This is where the problem is.

And if they can take your house due to some big business wanting to put a mall there, what's to stop them from taking your critters!

~Rogo
_________________________
Rogo

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#65638 - 01/14/06 08:03 AM Re: Isn't this NAIS unconstitutional?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mandatory? The constitution certainly gives the government authority to regulate commerce. For farmers that are selling livestock, there is a grey area as to how far they can identify, monitor, and inspect the product. But for farmers or hobbiests that are keeping poultry for pets, for home food use, or for giving eggs away, this is not commerce. If you're keeping livestock, let's say they can use that site ID number for that. But if you have a flock of chickens, horses, pot-bellied pigs, rabbits, or such pets then the government can't regulate them as commerce and the government can't use that site ID number towards those animals.

The government can certainly tax you for anything that they want. But my right, from the 4th amendment of the Constitution, supercedes all attempts of the government to take it away. The govenment cannot force me to put a monitoring device (even passive like a electronic tag) on my possessions even for the sake of national security (unless that person is a criminal or due cause). If they could, what's to stop them from putting a GPS device on every Muslim's car for purposes of tracking a potential terrorist. It's absurd, of course, but isn't that the same as putting a tracking device (even RFID tag) on my pet pot-belly pig or chickens?

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#65639 - 01/14/06 01:08 PM Re: Isn't this NAIS unconstitutional?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here's a opposition response to NAIS from a lawyer. It starts at the fourth post to the below link's thread.

http://homesteadingtoday.com/vb/showthread.php?t=113760

Another article, in pdf format, by the same author, in case the above disappears from the HT forum.

http://www.bantamclub.com/hobby/Why%20You%20Should%20Oppose.pdf

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#65640 - 01/15/06 09:43 AM Re: Isn't this NAIS unconstitutional?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, Wisconsin has passed a law requiring livestock SITE registration, by the Wisconsin Livestock Identification Consortium http://www.wiid.org/ . But, I've not seen the text. I find it incredible that there is no legal opposition.

Also as I said before, requiring site registration IS QUITE DIFFERENT than requiring electronic tracking tags on animals. The surveillance would probably be contested in court, I would think.

There is further evidence that suggests a legal problem exists with animal surveillance. The Wisconsin consortium site has a page, http://www.wiid.org/index.php?action=tracking_about , that states that the Wisconsin Premises Registration Act does not require that Fairs and Shows register their location. Why is that? Probably because it can only be justified by using the "Animal Tracking" requirement, which may be the legal obstacle.

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#65641 - 01/15/06 06:13 PM Re: Isn't this NAIS unconstitutional?
Rogo16 Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 439
Loc: Arizona
=== requiring site registration IS QUITE DIFFERENT than requiring electronic tracking tags on animals. The surveillance would probably be contested in court, I would think. ===

Any legal eagles out there know if this is true? It sure would help.

~Rogo
_________________________
Rogo

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#65642 - 01/16/06 06:58 AM Re: Isn't this NAIS unconstitutional?
T. Adkerson Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 895
Loc: Missouri
If we have an out break of the avian flu and people die from the disease, then the country will be blaming the government for not doing something about the disease. If the government suspects your flock of chickens of having avian flu they will come in and kill every chicken you have on your property. With a tracking system they could eliminate your flock as a source and you would not face years of work and breeding being eliminated.

The same thing goes for mad cow, one outbreak and the cattle industry will be in trouble because countries will not import our beef. The tracking system will help the government detemine where the cattle came from and what other cattle may be infected.

The industry puts tracking numbers on all kinds of things. Anything that is shipped has a tracking number, your perscriptions, your social security number, your car, truck, trailer, boat, your house, your computer, your guns, health insurance, etc, etc.

I personally think the less government we have the better off I will be but that is not what most people want. Many people in the United States think the goverment is their mother and father and want the government take care of them. They blam the government for everthing. I say grow up and shut up.

Tim

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