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#67497 - 12/30/05 02:08 AM NAIS
Eowyn Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 324
Loc: California
Hi fellow coop members, I am not trying to start a controversial thread in any way, but want every one to be as informed as possible about what is going on right now with the new "National Animal Identification System", and then decide for yourself. I am a Southern Californian Mom/housewife/hobby farmer, who enjoys raising a small amount of chickens ect...on my small half acre property for the benefit of my children (to see a chick hatch, to have fresh eggs ect...). I have several friends who do the same, or have horses, and enjoy going for and evening ride now and then.
Our Government is trying to take away these rights... and they are doing it as I write this. What is now a "voluntary" program being pushed as a way to"protect americas animals". Is set to become mandatory as of Jan 1, 2008. Please notify as many as you can of this latest attemt to take away yet another freedom. Here are some links to better inform you

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml

http://stopanimalid.org/

http://www.poultrypress.com/hobby/

http://www.rddavis.org/equitation/freedom-vs-id.html

Below is an article from http://www.thepowerhour.com/news2/livestock_database.htm

This sums it up...

"ATTENTION

LIVESTOCK and HORSE OWNERS

ORGANIC and LOCAL FOOD CONSUMERS

THE USDA PLANS TO MAKE EVERY OWNER OF EVEN ONE HORSE, COW, PIG, GOAT, SHEEP, CHICKEN, OR PIGEON REGISTER IN A GOVERNMENT DATABASE AND SUBJECT THEIR PROPERTY AND ANIMALS TO CONSTANT FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE.

Under the present USDA plan, as of January 1, 2008:

EVERY HOMEOWNER with any animals must obtain a 7-digit USDA ID number keyed to Global Positioning System satellite surveillance coordinates, with all the property and ownerfs information permanently stored in a USDA database.

EVERY ANIMAL must be tagged with a Radio Frequency tag or chip, readable at a distance, with a 15-digit USDA ID number.

THE OWNER MUST REPORT, within 24 hours, every sale or purchase of an animal, every death or slaughter, every missing animal, every placement or loss of an ID tag, and every time an animal leaves or returns to the owner's property.

THIS PLAN WILL DRIVE SMALL FARMERS OUT OF BUSINESS AND WILL PREVENT CITIZENS FROM RAISING ANIMALS FOR FOOD OR PLEASURE.

PLEASE HELP STOP THE USDA PLAN

FARM for LIFE(TM) is a new public-interest organization opposed to mandatory animal ID. Please support our work by subscribing to our newsletter (to be published three times a year, first issue scheduled for November 2005).

For more information or to subscribe to the newsletter contact:

Mary Zanoni, Executive Director of Farm for Life, 315-265-2800."

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#67498 - 12/30/05 09:19 AM Re: NAIS
Garden Chick Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 447
Loc: Minnesota
Well, I checked them out and all I can say is "What a bunch of CRAP"!!

I can understand controlling disease,but this is way too much.

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#67499 - 12/30/05 11:01 AM Re: NAIS
Eowyn Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 324
Loc: California
You should write your local representatives, I am trying to get this info out to as many as possible, because this is happening right under our noses and most people dont even know about it. The folks at my local feedstores and hardware stores were shocked when my friend passed out a flyer about it.

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#67500 - 12/30/05 11:35 AM Re: NAIS
Katielulu Offline
Bantam

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Virginia
It appears that California is still on the way to becoming a dictatorship state, we must stop it there and not let it spread to other states. Remember, we the people decide what happens in this country, so speak out , loud and clear.

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#67501 - 12/30/05 11:45 AM Re: NAIS
Katielulu Offline
Bantam

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Virginia
Sorry , my temper got to me before reading everything, I do see where it says national, still we must speak out and not let this pass.

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#67502 - 12/30/05 12:14 PM Re: NAIS
Garden Chick Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 447
Loc: Minnesota
Looks like it's already happening in Wisconsin ('avian flu cull' thread)

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#67503 - 12/30/05 03:19 PM Re: NAIS
Rogo16 Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 439
Loc: Arizona
NAIS was put together with the help of the big meat producers, not just the big poultry producers, to protect our food supply. What a joke - the diseases START with the big producers!
This all started about a year or so ago.

If it's to protect our food supply, why are critters like alpacas included?? It sounds more like a way to track the public. More government control.

Altho this project won't be completely implemented until 2009, some states are already making registration mandatory with the threat of heavy fines if you don't comply.

=== It appears that California is still on the way to becoming a dictatorship state ===

In case you haven't noticed, the U.S. has become a dictatorship!

If the public allows this to go thru, you can bet that we'll keep losing more of our rights than we already have. Personally, I see a bloodbath coming....folks are ready to protect their property and what's theirs.

With the cost of the chips, farm fees every 2 years, the time involved in the paper work....the cost alone will make it so few will be able to afford any critters.

On the other hand, I don't see where they'll have the manpower to do this. Perhaps the program will go the way of other government programs and fail. Look at the fabulous job the government has done protecting our borders!!

I don't know anyone who has volunteered to comply or will do so, including me.


rogo16@yahoo.com
_________________________
Rogo

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#67504 - 12/30/05 04:39 PM Re: NAIS
Rob2 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 3068
Loc: Pennsylvania
It's a real stretch to even think we are under a dictatorship;
+ it(NAIS) aint gonna fly, not as everyone seems to fear.
I have read a bunch of the left wing, wacked out, cuckoo stuff at some other boards,

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#67505 - 12/30/05 05:01 PM Re: NAIS
Rogo16 Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 439
Loc: Arizona
rob, it doesn't matter who's in office in the U.S. The only difference between the republicans and the democrats is how they spell their party names!

Like most, I don't think NAIS will get to where they say they're going.


rogo16@yahoo.com
_________________________
Rogo

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#67506 - 12/30/05 05:50 PM Re: NAIS
Eowyn Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 324
Loc: California
Like I said earlier, I dont want to start a debate here, just inform. Politics or not, this is going to affect us all if we dont do somthng about it before it gets too far.

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#67507 - 12/30/05 06:52 PM Re: NAIS
Anonymous
Unregistered


I doubt people will allow them to go through with this plan. Who in their right mind would support the idea?

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#67508 - 12/30/05 07:23 PM Re: NAIS
Rob2 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 3068
Loc: Pennsylvania
cattle producers for 1 group, they have a desire to protect their livlihoods. You cant just think of this as a poultry hobbiest, there are real reasons which could be argued in support of some sort of control. I do think this thing is not well thought out, but the basic idea is sound.
Rogo, the way I see things, there is a HUGE difference in the parties, good and bad on both sides of the aisle for sure, but it is the root of the party, the platform,or ideals, which I choose to support or not support.

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#67509 - 12/30/05 08:27 PM Re: NAIS
Rogo16 Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 439
Loc: Arizona
=== Rogo, the way I see things, there is a HUGE difference in the parties, good and bad on both sides of the aisle for sure, but it is the root of the party, the platform,or ideals, which I choose to support or not support. ===

That's why I support the Libertarians! :o)


rogo16@yahoo.com
_________________________
Rogo

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#67510 - 12/30/05 10:33 PM Re: NAIS
Chris Link Offline
Chicken

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 102
Loc: Missouri
Folks don't kid yourself for a minute that this isn't going to happen.. I recieved in the mail yesterday a calendar from the a.h.i.s. poultry division. they have a web addy it is www.aphis.asda.gov/vs You have to think on this realisticly is putting a $15 chip in a $1000 cow a big deal? Or even a $10,000 horse? so a $5 chicken really isn't all that important. Talking to my state man from the dept of ag he said they were rethinking the poultry end of it but wern't quite sure how they were going to do it. Chris
_________________________
Chris
http://groups.msn.com/linksoegb

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#67511 - 12/30/05 10:36 PM Re: NAIS
Chris Link Offline
Chicken

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 102
Loc: Missouri
sorry typed the link wrong...
www.aphis.usda.gov/vs
_________________________
Chris
http://groups.msn.com/linksoegb

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#67512 - 12/30/05 11:04 PM Re: NAIS
Eowyn Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 324
Loc: California
I am in total agreement with Chris, I have been passing out fliers in all my area feedstores, and nobody even knows about it, so who's to stop it???

Here is another link to a petition to sign if you are interested in fighting aginst this invasion of our rights...

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/369063795

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#67513 - 12/31/05 05:45 PM Re: NAIS
Anonymous
Unregistered


The Chicken's might not pass but I'm not having anyone tag my Goats.

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#67514 - 12/31/05 05:53 PM Re: NAIS
Blue Egg Girl Offline
Chicken

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 86
Loc: Michigan
Your congressmen will vote whatever way they want (whatever benefits their political agenda the most) but protest now and loudly.
Also DO NOT "volunteer" to do this program!

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#67515 - 01/01/06 09:43 AM Re: NAIS
Rob2 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 3068
Loc: Pennsylvania
It appears a lot of folks dont really know a lot about government.
What I am trying to understand is how is anyone gonna keep track of the movement(s) of 105 million cattle,60 million hogs,6.5 million sheep,2.5 million goats,5+ million horses and who knows how many million poultry in the United states each year?
The people who show animals are the ones who are most concerned with NAIS as they will be the most effected by records keeping and cost concerns. They are not profit oriented, they are also small numbers in the big picture. The intent of animal tracking is not to spy on American citizens but to protect a huge financial investment effecting the world.
I dont think the current plan is workable, nor well thought out. I think there will be some changes to ease some burdens on the hobbiest aspect of the livestock industry. but at the same time, it is the governments duty to protect Americans and that also means the finacial well being of the country. Its not hard to see why some sort of protection from diseases and finacial well being of the industry is so important. I am not so sure we have a "right" to keep animals, its more of a priveledge which can be removed for a number of reasons? It stinks that things as we have known them and become used to may have to be altered, but with increasing populations and ease of movement, a lot is going to change

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#67516 - 01/01/06 10:17 AM Re: NAIS
Blue Egg Girl Offline
Chicken

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 86
Loc: Michigan
The government isn't going to keep track of us...most likely we will have to be self monitored and if we don't comply with all the rules and regulations we will be penalized with fines or maybe even jail time.

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#67517 - 01/01/06 11:36 AM Re: NAIS
Eowyn Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 324
Loc: California
We dont have a right to own aniimals ? It is a privlidge? Last time I checked this was still a free country.
Also I wouldnt underestimate the power of the Govt to at least try this rediculous plan and give us a real nightmare in the process.
I hope you are right and this dosent happen, but in the meantime I am not going to sit back and do nothing, next to "volunteering" for this program, that is exactly what they want us to do.

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#67518 - 01/01/06 12:49 PM Re: NAIS
Bill Ludwig Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 2582
Loc: Ohio
I usually try to stay out of the political side of things here but I have to side with rob on this one. The gov. needs to try to find some way to monitor potential threats. In this case disease in animals. Can they track every animals in this country. I cant see how. They can however work with a percentage knowing for x number of recorded animals in an area there are likely x number of unreported also. In the same way sample testing for disease can evaluate a possible threat in a region. There are too many people who are not responsible for their actions either because of ignorance or greed that we can not allow everyone to do whatever they want in the name of freedom and not expect consequences. I truly do not like the idea of having anything I do recorded and tracked but the possible risks of doing nothing are too great. I am sure that the first butcher shop that had to be inspected and comply with big brothers rules felt it was intrusion on their rights but now most would agree that it is a necessary evil to keep everyone safe. As populations continue to grow we are ALL more and more dependent on the large scale production of food and other goods. A large interruption in any part of the production would ripple through every part of our lives. Even if you can provide for your own food you would be affected in other ways as our current economy and life styles are based on what we have to pay to eat as that is the one thing we can not do without.

Having stated that, do I believe everything politicians tell me? Do I agree that they make all the right choices? No, but I dont have the answers either and I am glad it is not my job to figure it out. I do believe there are times when we must give up some personal freedoms for the benefit of all. I do vote, write letters, sign petitions and back the representatives I believe in. I encourage everyone to do the same whether you agree or disagree with me. Unfortunately the only way we will know if a threat really existed is after we failed to prevent it!

Bill L

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#67519 - 01/01/06 02:08 PM Re: NAIS
Anonymous
Unregistered


It seems that animal identification schemes are driven primarily by the risk of bioterrorism. Since livestock disease has been around for a long time, how do they justify the change (certainly the SARS and AI type threats are rare and have been contained in the past)? This concerted push for a 48 hour traceback (as indicated by APHIS) at this time can only be explained, as such in our current environment, by the need for protection from bio-attack.

These schemes are being implemented by nations worldwide. Just do a google search on "animal identification europe" or such as read about it. There's probably a WHO component to it. So there has to be a political motive involved, too. Mollifying trading partners can only be accomplished if some plan is in place. So NAIS plays that role.

With that said, the government is going to do it's animal identification. Try stopping the 800 pound gorilla. It's absurd. But will it work? Implementing such a plan would be ridiculously expensive. As stated above, RFID tracking is a big undertaking. The logistics involved, including verification, are costly. Who's going to pay for it?

But it's likely that a subset of the overall scheme will occur. Site identification is the first step. If they want to be able to identify and isolate potential disease outbreaks, this is their start (even though they probably have much of the info already from overhead surveillance).

If site identification is reasonable, then is tracking the birth, death, and every movement of every "livestock-type" animal in the US reasonable? Maybe so for some large livestock that generally don't move locations much until its slaughter. But for chickens? LOL

I'm sure that some government managers and large agribusiness would love to have all food producers located in large, well contained, well regualted buildings and organizations. But realistically, this will never happen. The small farmer is too entrenched into "small-town America" and the minds of society. Restructuring does occur. But frankly, unless people explicitly trust agribusiness with all aspects of a healthy food supply (most people don't), there will always be the small farmer for the balance.

If this plan is a security/health issue, it should be funded expressly by the government. These "stop-animal-id" groups should be petitioning legislature to "PAY ALL" aspects of this. Farmers and hobbyists should not shoulder all costs for a national security scheme. It should be paid for by all Americans. Lets see how fast Congress would set aside 10 billion for some wild-eyed, "track everything" scheme. As a hobbiest, I'm willing to share the burden with all Americans. Maybe some of it would be implemented, but then this is the world that we live in.

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#67520 - 01/01/06 02:52 PM Re: NAIS
Rob2 Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 3068
Loc: Pennsylvania
it could be that bio terrorism is driving the latest push but animal ID & tracking has been going on for some time and it has been getting fine tuned as time passes. There have been similar forms of reporting such as the beef check off and sheep check off, etc. where a certain dollar amount was assessed for each animal sold which was collected to be spent on promoting sales of the product, it was law, not voluntary. I know as I tried to evade a stupidly small amount one time. I sold a lot of about 25 lambs and wasnt inclined to report the sale, about a year and a half later I was more than happy to pay the buck a head to avoid the penalties.
I do think that some kind of site ID might be a helpful thing along with random inspections for general health of the herd/flock. I wouldn't consider that a form of intrusion, AS LONG as ; the monetary burden was borne by the tav paying public; there were no hidden agendas; and the plan was approved by ALL producers in a national referendum. This would eliminate most of the poorest conditions( I am not talking about factory farming conditions) in which animals are kept which could be beneficial to all animal producers, large and small. Some states already have a fee($20) to enlist a premises, paid by the site owner after a certain cutoff date.

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#67521 - 01/01/06 03:50 PM Re: NAIS
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by rob:
it could be that bio terrorism is driving the latest push but animal ID & tracking has been going on for some time and it has been getting fine tuned as time passes. There have been similar forms of reporting such as the beef check off and sheep check off, etc. where a certain dollar amount was assessed for each animal sold which was collected to be spent on promoting sales of the product, it was law, not voluntary.
Yes, livestock tagging/tracking is good for many uses. And implementing it takes a considerable driver, given the understandable resistance. But once it's implemented, the cat's out of the bag. There's little stopping the fee collection and taxation that can be imposed.

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#67522 - 01/01/06 04:59 PM Re: NAIS
Eowyn Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 324
Loc: California
Well, :rolleyes: like I said this is just for your information, not to start a debate. I hope there are a few on this site who were informed that did not know about this, that was my point in posting it, regardless of ones personal opinion on the matter.

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