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#70048 - 03/15/08 05:44 PM What to do about NAIS ?
D. Honour Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 292
Loc: New York
I got in the mail today an registration certificate from NAIS,which I did not ask for.Everything I have read points to the many negatives with this program. What can be done about this being forced upon us? Does the "OPT OUT " procedure work?

(On feathersite)
USDA Announces An "Opt Out" Procedure For NAIS

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#70049 - 03/15/08 08:01 PM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
Rogo16 Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 439
Loc: Arizona
The USDA has been using some illegal means to register folk's premise without their knowledge.

I personally wouldn't opt out; you're telling them you've received their mail and giving them your info.

Toss it in the trash, even tho they claim you have to return it.

http://nonais.org/ is a good way to keep up with what's going on. There's new info almost daily.
_________________________
Rogo

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#70050 - 03/15/08 08:48 PM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
Our Montana Governor is one of 4 States that are not accepting the personal Real ID card for boarding airlines!! Drivers License is all that is needed. I pray that he can hold out, even though the Federal Government will withhold $$$ for highways and schools! Actually, it is the Homeland Security, that will handle it, and over our States Rights, by blackmail-- I applaud Governor Schweitzer!!And if your State is Maine, New Hampshire, South Carolina, support your Governor's refusal to comply, so you will not have to get a RealID to board an airplane (what will it be used for NEXT?) They have asked for an extension to negotiate this indignity! I remember in 1959 when traveling Eurail across Europe. The train stopped at the border of every country we crossed, to check passports or PERSONAL ID card of all passengers.

Now, everyone crosses most European country borders with no checking, no stopping, and no changing money. Europe is just as "threatened" by terrorists as "we are". Return to cold war times will not make us "safer". It has been pointed out that we cannot walk safely down some U.S. city streets, night or day! (home grown U.S. terrorists ARE a threat==and are not contained-how many children and young people are killed by the gangs and hoodlums)? Do you think they will have an ID card? We must risk them! I would feel like those poor refuges in Europe after WWII, if I had to carry an ID card, as they did!!

A useful purpose in ID of our Poultry (from chick to butcher, including chicks that fail to live) is unthinkable and again, an infringement upon keeping poultry--and raising our own food!

Write to your Senators--and join Montana and the 3 other States in resisting "quiet police State people AND animal ID!"

CJR (will probably have to delete this, even though it is vital to our Poultry keeping!!)

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#70051 - 03/15/08 11:25 PM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
Rogo16 Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 439
Loc: Arizona
Arizona has prohibited NAIS. I've seen other states refuse to follow federal laws, but no other state, as far as I know, has followed my state with NAIS.
_________________________
Rogo

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#70052 - 03/16/08 01:30 AM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
P. Smith1340 Offline
Chicken

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 94
Loc: Oregon
I just Google'd NAIS, I'd never heard of that before. That whole concept is a little frightening! Sooner or later we'll all need to have computer chips implanted or something. I think the Real ID act was aimed more at preventing illegal immigration, but I could be wrong.

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#70053 - 03/16/08 01:40 AM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
Blackdotte Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 913
Loc: Australia
It's things like this which cause much of the world to fear the US, and the rest to hold it in contempt.
Talk about politicians & civil servants going from infancy to senility. Hope it is never suggested here.

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#70054 - 03/16/08 05:42 AM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
D. Honour Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 292
Loc: New York
I am concerned about not being able to ship adult birds,chicks or hatching eggs out of state,if one is not participating. I have for decades been bloodtesting the flock ,so I can sell breeding stock around the country and help fellow breeders. Dan

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#70055 - 03/16/08 08:56 AM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
The fragmented authority for the various regulations by a number of agencies that do not communicate together, is already a problem. Birds not bloodtested can be shipped into Montana, but not Washington (however, the PO does not have any authority to comply) And yet, baby chicks vaccinated for Marek's Disease cannot be mailed into Montana until 2 weeks old (not possible). They cannot live for several days without food and water for the several days it takes to arrive--and are doa. So the hatcheries send only unvaccinated chicks into Montana (some of them are delayed and have poor survival rate). Is this a disease control--and one of the worst diseases for loss of birds??Too late to vaccinate after arrival.
Real ID is now proposed for all for airport security, is to be required soon, as ID to board any flight! Passports are okay, but not drivers license, must have REal ID. Counterfeiters are already at work. This is purely for terrorist control--(scare us in every direction.) This kind of ID is what Montana's Governor is resisting, and only the 4 states have so far refused to comply. It is not in total effect, but will be in a few months. Yes, illegal immigrants were the beginning, largely for southern border illegals, as well as by sea.
After this was proposed for control, then more ideas in other agencies began to be added!

I am old enough to remember when GOLD was taken from private ownership--and that was unimportant compared to the liberties we are slowly losing--one thing at a time! This is not my usual soapbox, but sorry, I have lost my poultry business, not being able to ship birds from my part of the state, any longer--after 40 years of sending and receiving birds,(railway express at first and no longer an option, and having to find other means of delivering a very few, only by kindness of friends who live in places where they can mail! Am I supposed to get old, sitting in a chair and "rocking"? CJR

PS, If I weren't so darn old, I would keep a cow--our milk comes from half a state away, when we used to have 25 small dairy farms in our valley, including our own, milk, cottage cheese, butter, were all processed and distributed locally. Creamery is closed, hatcheries are gone. Now plastic is suspect and of course, I grew up with glass milk bottles-- and now even babies bottles are going back to glass! Every new idea or product is not a good thing! Oh Bother!

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#70056 - 03/16/08 09:28 AM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
Bill Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 591
Loc: Nevada
Well said, Jean.
" Am I supposed to get old, sitting in a chair and "rocking"? CJR"

YES, thats exactly what they would prefer, but I suggest we do it by 'ROCKING' THEIR WORLD. I am just to darn old to take the crap that is being spoon fed to us.

The problem with the younger generation, and this is NOT a critism of the younger people, is that they are so involved with making a living, they don't have time to "think" (been there, done that")

With moist of the "good ideas" that come up, all you have to do is follow the money to find out WHO it's good for.

This NAIS is not a BAD idea, the problem is that the GOV has historically proven the aren't capable of administering such a plan. A very recent example is Immigration. There has been Immigration Laws, for ever. The GOV has not enforced them & now that it's out of hand, they want a NEW Law - how stupid, but typical.
_________________________
Bill
http://www.geocities.com/wcmcgee@prodigy.net/photopagetan.html

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#70057 - 03/16/08 12:15 PM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
Thanks, Bill, and I agree NAIS is not all bad, but how it is forecast to include baby chicks at your place and mine, is not a very intelligent collection of information. Think of the numbers of new government employees and office buildings and office equipment that will be required to collect it? That alone is an overwhelming thought! But who is thinkin?

CJR

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#70058 - 03/16/08 12:39 PM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
J. Lehrer Offline
Bantam

Registered: 09/21/05
Posts: 60
Loc: Wisconsin
Remember Wisconsin already has a form of NAIS all farms must be registered and have a no. even if you have one cow or chicken. There also thinking of having people raido tag every animal you have, but if you are a big producer you can get a way with a whole group. Not every animal. Can you see taging every chicken you have.

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#70059 - 03/16/08 01:43 PM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
Bill Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 591
Loc: Nevada
I believe the electronic tracking ID thinking has disappeared.

JEAN - I'm beginning to think we should give them exactly what they ask for, when they are up their eyeballs in paperwork, maybe they will realize just what a dumb idea this really is.
_________________________
Bill
http://www.geocities.com/wcmcgee@prodigy.net/photopagetan.html

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#70060 - 03/16/08 02:41 PM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
Foehn Offline
Administrator
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1968
Loc: New Zealand
Blackdotte, it may be closer than you think. New Zealand has already adopted a cattle and other livestock tagging procedure where the animal is slaughtered for meat. There are some good reasons for this. 1. Herds tested and accredited to be TB free can move freely around the country. Paperwork has to go with them in the form of a declaration of statis. Until recently deer farmers did not have to test for TB and there has been a resurgence in this disease partly because deer graze the bushline, and possums are now proven carriers of this disease. They contaminate the pasture at the bushline.
2. Animals sent for slaughter have to be free of pesticides and antibiotics etc., as often they end up as export meat. In a recent case, a Kumeu farmer was prosecuted for sending contaminated meat for slaughter. Alarm bells started ringing when this was found in routine testing. Where? In Korea, where the meat ended up, yet it could be traced all the way back to the farmer who admitted the contamination. This is a good thing if it prevents growers from practises which might have a bearing on the health of consumers, no matter whether local or international. It also has the potential to devastate the export meat industry.

The downside can be how it affects the small growers. When regulations require licenses or consultants which have to be paid for, it penalizes small growers out of existence. This has been a problem for small freerange egg producers, because it costs too much for the annual license to have a consultant tell producers that they handle eggs safely. (SMP (Safe management practise))Of course this is well supported by battery egg producers who can produce eggs cheaply, (never mind the cost to the poor hen) and unwelcome to free range small producers who cannot compete.
However I do not like having regulations imposed that undermine traditional ways of life. I love to be able to exchange a few eggs with a neighbour and get a jar of jam, or a homebaked loaf in return. I refuse to pay an annual license to be able to do that!
I do not call this civil disobedience. I call it defending my right to uphold traditional values.

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#70061 - 03/16/08 05:33 PM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
D. Honour Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 292
Loc: New York
I agree with so much said here on this thread. I grew up on a small farm and at the time did not really think how good the food was,the meat,milk,eggs,fruit and vegetables,jams breads,canned and frozen foods were tops. Today all we do is work to pay an ever increasing cost of living and the food we buy tastes like garbage.In a way at lease we know what good food tasted like,something the children today have no idea.

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#70062 - 03/16/08 06:49 PM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
Ziggy Offline
Chick

Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Indiana
(have a few NPIP questions, so decided to start a new topic)

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#70063 - 03/16/08 08:21 PM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
Blackdotte Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 913
Loc: Australia
Hi Foehn, Yes we have trace back tagging of cattle,& sheep, etc for the same reasons. Also for disease control ie Yonnes etc , but tagging chicks as they hatch...having travel documents for a bird to go to a show ...a licence to give away a dozen eggs, or a bunch of carrots....come on.

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#70064 - 03/20/08 04:33 PM Re: What to do about NAIS ?
Anonymous
Unregistered


My personal opinion is, and what I would personally do if I received one of those special little notices..... lickety split put it through the shredder and go have a bowl of ice cream. Your business is NONE of their business. If you opt out, you will be on their "list".

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