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#77459 - 06/28/07 09:37 AM De-Crowing a Rooster
Anonymous
Unregistered


If a rooster can safely be de-crowed (not sure if that is a correct term for this), will it have a detramental effect on him? He's a pet; but if I can't remove his crow, the city will take him and kill him. He comes when his name is called, eats from our hands, and follows us around all day. We love him and he loves us. We are the only thing he knows.

Please hurry with any help you have. We only have a week. The city will let us keep him if he is quiet. Has anyone ever had this problem?

Thanks
Georgie's MaMa

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#77460 - 06/28/07 09:43 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Rhea Dean Carter Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Tennessee
Personally I think it's cruel and inhumane to remove his voice box.
_________________________
Rhea Dean

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#77461 - 06/28/07 09:57 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Anonymous
Unregistered


Have you ever heard of or seen a Rooster after this has been done?

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#77462 - 06/28/07 10:55 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Rhea Dean Carter Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Tennessee
No, I haven't. It has never crossed my mind to remove the voice box of one of my roosters. I have a feeling it will be quite expensive IF you can even find a vet. who will perform the operation.
_________________________
Rhea Dean

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#77463 - 06/28/07 12:32 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Raspberry Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 174
Loc: Oregon
I asked my vet about this and the vet said it is not possible.

I think decrowing (if it were possible) is somewhat akin to declawing cats.

I have mixed feelings about declawing cats. Some of the most loved cats have been declawed. Some of the poorest cared for cats have not. I lean towards owners loving their cats with its claws.

Just last week I had to give up Crowbar, my Black Jersey Giant Rooster. Someone in the neighborhood turned me in to animal control. The vector folks came out and were very supportive of me having over the three hen limit. They just would not let me have any roos. So Crowbar went to the countryside to live with other Giants and to walk on cool green grass.

It is rather depressing out in my hen house now, even with seven of Crowbar's chicks running around with a broody Jersey hen. Somehow, the personality of a rooster really livens up the place. I am making plans to move to the country myself.

If it were possible to safely "decrow" a young rooster, if the bird could live a very happy healthy life following healing of the surgery, and if decrowing actually increased not only the 'tollerance' of chickens in the city, but also promoted the hobby, then I feel decrowing would fill a bigger and thus more worthwhile purpose.

But that is a lot of "ifs"... which cannot come true. So ay dicussion on the matter is ultimately mute.

Better to just find a home for your tame roo. He will like life there.

Raspberry

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#77464 - 06/28/07 12:40 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks so much for your comments. I am sick about losing him to a ranch or farm, others say that Roosters might kill him, since he thinks he's more of a dog....or just a sweet little pet. But I,... like you , feel bad about muteing him. We also have cats and would never de-claw. Hopefully , I can find a place where he would be happy and SAFE...he is so use to setting on my window ledges in my plants, watching tv through the window...and pecking on them for me to come out and play.

Thanks again
Georgie's MaMa

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#77465 - 06/28/07 12:41 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Smoky73 Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 697
Loc: Colorado
Birds are very difficult to Anethetize for a surgery. You will need to find a Avian Vet I am sure and the surgery will be very expensive, and it will not quite him 100%. I have been told by others who have had it done that it lowers the crowing so its softer, but not gone.
_________________________
Cara Smith
http://www.silverpulletpoultry.net

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#77466 - 06/28/07 12:44 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Anonymous
Unregistered


Where would I find an Avian Vet?

Thanks
Kodiblue

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#77467 - 06/28/07 12:55 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
There is another alternative, that you would not like, as it would change his freedom. I have sent 2 bantams to a Manhattan, New York, 6th floor apartment, where they have been happy for almost a year, laying eggs and just now in their first molt. How? She built an Aviary, larger than you see for finches, etc. and room to at least fly up to several roosts. She also has a walkway to an outside cage on her deck, so they can have sunshine and growing "greens"! NY City is not opposed to "exotics", including roosters. I encouraged her to take pullets only, for the sake of her apartment neighbors--and she does give those neighbors eggs now and then! She wants to raise some chicks so badly, that she might, in time, have a cockerel long enough to get fertile eggs--her sister, in Vermont on a farm would take him, then. Even if she wanted to keep him with her, penned hens with a rooster, need more room--too much activity all the time!

Anyway, there you are! CJR

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#77468 - 06/28/07 05:27 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Blackdotte Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 913
Loc: Australia
My son-in-law tells me birds are very difficult to anesthetize, the survival rate is not good. He says he would never perform such a procedure ,even if it was legal,which it isn't in the UK,EU,Australia or NZ,because he considers it too risky ,and unethical.

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#77469 - 06/28/07 06:38 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you for your input.
Why is it unethical?

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#77470 - 06/29/07 04:43 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Blackdotte Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 913
Loc: Australia
Apparently because of a decision of the Ethics Committees of numerous Veterinary Associations around the world.

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#77471 - 06/29/07 05:25 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Hahnsberg Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 156
Loc: Texas
Before I went on the quest for a quiet rooster, I looked into the devoicing procedure. We have several avian specialists in the area; I found a chap who works for one of the local zoos who was familiar with the procedure, but had not himself performed it. It seems that the surgery (never common) was most usually performed on peacocks. The survival rate is reportedly low – and ‘relapses’ common enough. The price was about $500 several years ago, so higher now. I was told that for a barnyard fowl it was ridiculously expensive, and for a valuable pedigreed bird too risky, given the mortality rate – and even if the bird survived it once, it might not be lucky a second time, in the event of a relapse.


If you have the means to afford the surgery, you might better spend it by making a sound-proof coop. It is feasible for bantams – I fancy you could adapt it for a large rooster or two.

It is rather sad about roosters. The ‘country’ is being eaten up here – land that was under cultivation ten years ago is now a trendy city everywhere you look. Zoning regulations have advanced like an invading army.

Richard

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#77472 - 06/29/07 06:06 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you, you have been most helpfull and most kind, at such a heart breaking time for me. I wont be de-crowing Georgie, I will have to take him somewhere else to live. It breaks my heart to think that I wont be seeing him run across the yard to see me, and do his little dance before he eats. I hope other birds wont kill him...he's such a doll.

Thanks again
kodiblue (georgie's Mama)

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#77473 - 06/29/07 06:11 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Foehn Offline
Administrator
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1968
Loc: New Zealand
The neighbour I used to have that sold out, had "illegal" roosters in town. No way I would report her to the council. I kinda liked waking to the sound of her rooster crowing. Other neighbours apparently equally tolerant, but then on the other side of us we do have a neighbour who has not been very nice in the past, so i don't have a rooster at all.
Interesting R rasberry that you have a 3 hen limit. Under our town bylaws we are allowed 10, but the restrictions on coops and runs would make it almost impossible to have hens. (10 metres from boundarys. 10 metres from kitchens) I get around that by not having a fixed coop. If the coop is mobile (on wheels) I can't be pinged for breaking those laws. I keep 8 hens, but have had up to 24 when they have chicks.

If it were easy to de-crow, it would be common as it would solve a huge problem on the rooster issue. The fact that it's difficult, dangerous and for some of us illegal, shows it's been looked at and rightly rejected.

Sound proofing a coop sounds a reasonable answer if you can't bear to part with him Kodiblue, but if you can find him a good home, perhaps in future a pet hen would be a better choice.

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#77474 - 06/29/07 07:08 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Hahnsberg Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 156
Loc: Texas
Where I am, roosters are not illegal per se, but there is a nuisance ordinance – better safe than sorry. I have a few neighbours with roosters – can hear them calling in the morning – but do not want to ‘push’ my luck.


I had two roosters that needed a place to be while I had their sound-proof enclosure made. I made two pens in the garage for them – lights on a timer, installed a window air conditioner. They were there about two months – happy as could be. I rotated the hens with them, and maintained fertility in the eggs. You could easily make that your permanent solution, no?

Richard

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#77475 - 06/30/07 06:25 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Oakie Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 415
Loc: Oklahoma
Where would you look to find a city ordinance about chickens?

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#77476 - 06/30/07 07:45 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
City Hall

CJR

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#77477 - 06/30/07 09:49 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Anonymous
Unregistered


They were there about two months – happy as could be. I rotated the hens with them, and maintained fertility in the eggs. You could easily make that your permanent solution, no?

Richard...........Thanks again Richard...but
Georgie is running free in our back yard, with a pool and lots of wood and cement decks. He sleeps in the top of a 30 foot tree 12 hours each night.We have no other chickens or roosters.....We can't even get him to go into the pool house. He wants to run free. We are not going to de-crow him........but are trying to find a place for him. He is so use to my husband and myself as his only contact. He plays and eats and sits on us.....and is totally dependent. I am so afraid that other chickens or roosters will harm him.......and he'll be looking for us to protect him. It's breaking our hearts...Never thought we could fall totally in love with a Rooster. We live in So. Calif. and Yes, Ive checked with the city and it is against the law. If it werent for the big mouth neighbors, with a stupid barking dog, who turned us in........Georgie would be just fine here. Who is gonna feed him his popcorn, grapes, tomatoes, and meal worms....like his Mama........NO BODY...thats who!

Thanks for listening
Barbie Pierce (Georgie's Mama)

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#77478 - 06/30/07 10:02 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Anonymous
Unregistered


We are not zoned for hens or roosters....Georgie flew over our back fence which faces a large field. He was just a little guy, when he came over. We had never thought of having anything other than the dogs and cats we have. He adopted us as his family and we fell in love with him. Yes, I am going to have to find a place, and hope other hens or roosters don't harm or kill him, because he is such a dependent guy. Just plays all day with the birds and little lizards that are around the yard. That is when he's not crowing for me to come out and play, feed , or hold him. Then he just sets on the window sills and looks in and watches the tv....and pecks at the window.
He is my little love....
Barbie (Georgie's Mama)

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#77479 - 06/30/07 11:36 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Luisa Fels Offline
Bantam

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 69
Loc: California
hi kodiblue--if you decide to find a home for your roo, we c'n offer one, but we're in no. calif and i'm not sure how we'd get him in time. lemme know if you want to consider it. we're on 40 acres, surrounded by 100s more uninhabited, and we have no neighbors who could complain, since the closest one we could have jailed for growing pot. he'd just have to learn to put up w/ yacky geese and guineas. whaddaya think? we might even be able to put him in w/ my sis-in-law's chickens . . . . she's pretty accomodating . . . . we share this place. . . .

take care--luisa
_________________________
L. Fels

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#77480 - 06/30/07 11:44 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Luisa Fels Offline
Bantam

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 69
Loc: California
hi kodiblue--ma again, luisa--in case you're interested in us taking your roo, you c'n reach me at lfels@hotmail.com.
_________________________
L. Fels

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#77481 - 07/02/07 09:22 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Hicks Chicks Offline
New Egg

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 8
Loc: Georgia
Has anyone had any experience with either caponizing or chemical caponizing. It used to be a very common occurance on the farms, and it quiets the rooster (capon). It used to be done so the capon would gain weight in a short period of time and end up weight up to 8 pounds. It was a way to not have a bunch of roosters crowing in the pasture. It is said to make the very docile also.
_________________________
Debra Hicks

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#77482 - 07/03/07 06:09 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Blackdotte Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 913
Loc: Australia
Chemical caponising became illegal many years ago in Europe .UK,Aust & NZ many years ago,it was accomplished by use of female hormones,& us guys started developing breasts the girls would have been proud of. Surgical caponising entails the removal of the testes,no an easy thing as the testicles are inside the body. You need to cut somewhere under the wing,fish them out & stitch. My father said many never survived.

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#77483 - 07/04/07 03:56 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Jocelyn Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1467
Loc: Canada
I have about a 150 roosters and they have never injured each other. They have enough space and enough hens that they spar a little in the spring and all settle down after about 3 weeks. Some of the modern production strains have lost their brains in the effort to breed more and more efficiency into them. These roos don't know how to court a hen, and just beat her up if she won't allow mating with no dancing roo. They fight among themselves and can leave each other cut up badly. These are where the stories of roos killing each other come from. If Georgie can be placed where there are 6 or 8 hens and no roo, he will be in heaven...and you might be able to get a couple of his female offspring from the folks you give him to. Failing that, you could place him with someone who will pen him with 2 hens for a week or so, then free range him in a mixed flock.
With 2 hens of his own, he can gradually work his way up the peck order and will be OK, as long as he has lots of space. A family with older children would be ideal, as Georgie will probably love riding around the yard on bicycle handlebars and other kid stuff that will make him still a pet.

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#77484 - 07/04/07 12:05 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow........loved your letter. I will certainly make sure and let them know we don't want any Roos with him. Gosh I hope we can get him a place like that, with kids and hens.

Thanks...
Georgie's Mama

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#77485 - 07/06/07 07:46 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Michael TX Offline
Chicken

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 95
Loc: Texas
This whole thread again points out that there is a DEMAND for quiet roosters. Any breeder who could develop a strain of quiet roosters would be doing a great service to the hobby, and helping to insure the survival of poultry keeping in an urban society.

Someone out there needs to try it!

--Michael

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#77486 - 07/06/07 05:18 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Hahnsberg Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 156
Loc: Texas
Michael,

I'm working on it, but this weather is not helping! I lost two of my roosters -- am now down to two, but thank goodness they are the best of the lot.

Richard

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#77487 - 07/06/07 06:42 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Michael TX Offline
Chicken

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 95
Loc: Texas
Hi Richard,

I know you are! I am just trying to get others to take up the challenge.

The weather HAS been terrible. I lost all my baby pheasants, and am even having trouble with some of my ringneck doves. Mosquito-born diseases are rampant.

Look for a private message from me.

--Michael

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#77488 - 07/07/07 12:50 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Uno Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 1280
Loc: Canada
Here's a whacky thought: Botox. If it can paralyze your face, why not paralyze a voicebox? As long as a bird does not need his voice box to breathe or eat, maybe you should take him to a plastic surgeon.

I realize this is a serious situation you find yourself in but the problem of roosters and neigbours has come up time and time again. The surgical de-crowing looks like it doesn't work. But science is finding more and more uses for Botox, from facial applications to helping people with chronic muscle cramps.

If there are any scientific minded Coopers out there, this might be something to consider. And if it has been tried, how well did it or didn't it work? I think this is something I would like to see considered and discussed among people smarter than me (that's everyone)

Sorry you find yourself in the same place that many before you have wrestled with. There seems no good solution. frown

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#77489 - 07/07/07 05:43 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Lomax Offline
Feather

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 28
Loc: Texas
Botox only lasts about three months, and it is pretty expensive for a chicken. I would, however, love to see someone take one a day spa for treatment!

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#77490 - 07/07/07 03:16 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Raspberry Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 174
Loc: Oregon
Foehn--
just picking up this thread again.

Many cities in the United States have a three hen rule. Many more have a no hen rule. So those who have three feel fortunate.

Most all of them have a no rooster rule.

I'd much rather listen to a rooster than a barking dog, or more, one of those scooters with no muffler an a lawn mower engine on them! Now why are those legal?!!

Every City in the US makes up its own rules, but here in Portland, the rules are more liberal than in many other cities with restrictions.

Someone just turned me in, not a few weeks ago, for my rooster.

I have been dealing with the "vector and nusiance" officer.

(I guess I am a nusiance!) BUt the officer is prety nice and easy to work with.

I have to get a permit to have more than three hens. No resricitions on my own house and how close the coop can be to it, but there are restrictions on how close the coop can be to other houses.

I do not need signatures of neighbors within 200 feet of the "facility" (Coop and how far the chickens run.) I would for bees or pigeons.

I can have up to three total, chickens, ducks,pot belly pigs, pigmy goats, rabbits, but no roosters, no larger animals, and no geese. Anyting over this and I have to get a permit and pay a one time 31 dollar fee. The permit allows the officer to come to my place any time he wants to inspect the facility. (I do not like that at all!) Violations could cost from $100.00 to 500.00 per day depending on the situation.

Pens have to be kept clean. Scraped to keep the fly population under check. No food out for prolonged periods. The chickens have to eat it up immediately. THat means I feed my birds several times a day.

There are no restricitions on my guinea pigs that I am awared of.

Life. Time to move to the country!

Raz

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#77491 - 07/07/07 10:41 PM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Foehn Offline
Administrator
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1968
Loc: New Zealand
I guess people just don't like the fact that roosters can start crowing at any old time of the night especially if there is a full moon. I agree about yapping dogs, they can get on your nerves real quick if they have that yapping incessant whine. In the machinery line I think leaf blowers are pretty horrible. They have a high pitched whine sure to set my tinitus "singing".
No ordinances against those here but people do tend to follow an unwritten law about "sociable hours".
No council problems with flies here that I know of, but I use a pyrethrum spray around the yard anyway, and have a very good flytrap that I bait with a little mash and water (rather than meat) and the flies literally kill themselves in their haste to get to the bait. Chooky manure is all composted through a good bin with a lid, unless I have a space not in produce and then I will trench it directly. (Great vegetables!)
Oh, and I just love guinea pigs!

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#77492 - 07/08/07 04:26 AM Re: De-Crowing a Rooster
Blackdotte Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 913
Loc: Australia
Oh how happy I feel,our Town Council has a policy that "it will not have a policy on poultry in the town area" i.e. If everybody is happy the Council doesn't want to know. However if you don't do the right thing they can ban you keeping any poultry.

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