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#83085 - 10/20/04 12:59 PM Information Required on Breed and Varieties
Anonymous
Unregistered


As of present my interest in Dutch Bantams has increased, however there is several parts i would like information on. As many of you reading this will know, there is 13 colour varieties listed as being standardized (UK), however there will obviously be other non-standard colour varieties being created or bred. In a recent copy of 'Practical Poultry' Hans L Schippers wrote a feature with varieties listed including Mottled, Silver Quail, Blue Buff Columbian, Salmon etc. Please could someone list the colour varieties present in Dutch Bantams?

As seen at shows and in photographs some of the colour varieties in Dutch seem quite complex, my question is do they needed to be double mated (separate female and male breeding lines)? I fully understand the need to double mate in order to achieve perfection (if there’s such a thing) in a chosen variety, however are Dutch required to be double mated for breed features (type, tail etc) and/or colour (dependant upon the variety) or neither?

The following question may seem odd, however i am uninformed on the matter. Do Dutch contain the creepers gene (responsible for short legs, as in Japanese, Scots Dumpy etc.)?

Apart from general ones involved with any breed, do Dutch have any special or specific requirements involved with their breeding, showing and progress?

The reason for asking for more information regarding Dutch is because i have considered taking up a new breed and have been drawn to the Dutch amongst others. Currently i am breeding and developing my Leghorns not only for colour but also for double mating lines. I consider undertaking another breed quite a major task, and am undecided as of yet and if?

Thank you for reading and i would appreciate your input. Apologies for the long post.

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#83086 - 10/20/04 09:12 PM Re: Information Required on Breed and Varieties
Rog Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 775
Loc: Missouri
Sir True Dutch do not have Jap breeding. So as an American breeder No. No short leg gene. Is that plain ? Colors or colours , do what you thinks works for you. We have several breeders in the US that are breeding new colors or colours. Using OEG. They are not Dutch. I have some. Black and Blue bred birds. Not Dutch. Type wise. Do what works for you. After all you pay the feed bill. Good luck and good breeding. Just me. Rog
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Fast Trucks , Fast Horses , Fast Women and Slow Chickens

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#83087 - 10/20/04 10:15 PM Re: Information Required on Breed and Varieties
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8483
Loc: Montana
Jaxb, Go to http://www.dutchbantamclub.org/ You will find the The Dutch Club in Britain. Contact the Secretary and you will find a list of breeders and the varieties they raise.

Hans Schippers, is of course, in Holland. There are 20 varieties approved in The Netherlands now. Not that many in England or U.S. or most other countries. Several geneticists in Holland have done most of the work and they understand what they are doing. Few of the rarer varieties can be located for breeding stock, only several breeders have them. Most of those "new" colors, do not have the quality that is found in the basics: Gold Partridge, Yellow Partridge, Blue Partridge, Silver Partridge. Even the solid colors, Blue, Black, White are not really great quality Dutch.

There are two major shows coming up--at Leamington Spa, (Stoneleigh) and the larger show at Stafford, both in December. It would be a good place to see good, better, and best Dutch and to meet some exhibitors. There are GREAT Gold Partridge, Yellow Partridge and Silvers in England, Wales and Scotland--some as good as in Holland! Go to their website. CJR

And while few do it in the U.S., several of the most successful breeders and exhibitors in The Netherlands, often double mate their Dutch. With the right birds, it is not imperative.

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#83088 - 10/21/04 08:16 AM Re: Information Required on Breed and Varieties
Deb AZ Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 452
Loc: Arizona
Hello Jack , no, Dutch carry the bantam gene. They have not been bred down by the introduction of the bantam gene and selection for they are a true bantam, having no standard counter part.

I think considering where you are you would do wonderfully picking a well establish color and working within its confines. Learning how to breed well established varieties in the Dutch is essential for Dutch breeders everywhere. The most interesting aspect of some of the Dutch varieties is they are indegenous only to the Dutch. So one must take care in selection and breeding to promote the correct color. They are a wonderful palete yet crossing varities randomly produces tainted matings. Crossing to other bantams of any sort produces a very inaccurate representation of a beautiful bird. As CJR states many of the solid colors have suffered by crossings to produce numbers.

I hope you visit the site CJR included and really look at those wonderful pictures of what a true Dutch bantam should appear as. I am always intrigued that the fowl in the UK appear slightly larger and with exceptional feathering, not only in the Dutch but many other well established breeds. It seems here in the US we tend to down size everything.

Keep in touch and let us all know what you decide.

Deb

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#83089 - 10/21/04 01:50 PM Re: Information Required on Breed and Varieties
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you all for taking the time to reply and for sharing your knowledge.

Rog – I think we have misunderstood each other regarding the creepers gene. I am aware Dutch do not contain Japanese blood, however was just using the breed (Japanese) as an example for referring to the short leg gene. Nonetheless it is clear from your post that they do not contain the short leg gene, and I thank you for this information. I understand where your coming from in ‘do what you thinks works for you’ as it then must be a case of balancing the quality within the breeding.

CJR - Thanks for the link I will certainly take a look at it over the next few days. With regard to the two major shows (Nat’ & Fed’), I will definitely be at the Federation, however I will probably not be at the National. I have attended the Federation for several years (Leghorn Club AGM’s), however i only visited the National for the second time in several years last year and was still disappointed with the venue. However I appreciate the work put in and understand the problems with the venue from talking with I. Sissons (Leghorn Sec’/Nat’ Show Manager). Will you be attending either of the above two shows?

CJR/DebAZ - Thank you for your opinion on the English Dutch (if that sounds right), from what you have both said I think as a potential newcomer to the breed it would be better for me to undertake a well developed/established colour. Thus allowing me to ‘learn the ropes’. Although not being able to compare them with US bantams, I agree the bantams in England are well over the standardized weight and size. This mainly applies to the Soft Feather with standardized weights being ignored. The case is such in some SF bantam breeds; if a bird is exhibited of the correct weight/size it would be regarded as too small and most probably not achieve honours.

I will let you know in due course of what I decide, for the time being if anyone has more information to share on Dutch please do post it. From other posts and what you have written above it is clear how much enthusiasm you all have for the breed.

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#83090 - 10/23/04 09:31 PM Re: Information Required on Breed and Varieties
Rog Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 775
Loc: Missouri
Jack What a refreshing reply. Honesty at last. And from England. Guess sometimes I just say what I think. And I can be wrong. Not often though. " Joke OK " Rog
_________________________
Fast Trucks , Fast Horses , Fast Women and Slow Chickens

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#83091 - 10/28/04 12:05 PM Re: Information Required on Breed and Varieties
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've taken a good look at the Dutch site, and will contact the Secretary as advised for a breeders list. Will post with how everything progresses.

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#83092 - 10/31/04 06:55 AM Re: Information Required on Breed and Varieties
Deb AZ Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 452
Loc: Arizona
Jack you ae also welcome to come over and visit CJR, myself, and other Dutch breeders at the Chronicles. We have some nice pics of some nice Dutch up.

http://groups.msn.com/CHICKENCHRONICLES/homepage

Deb

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#83093 - 11/05/04 01:19 PM Re: Information Required on Breed and Varieties
Anonymous
Unregistered


Deb - I spent a good couple of hours looking through the 'Chronicles' last night, reading alot of past posts and generally looking around and getting to know the forum. Thank you for making me aware of the site and i will try and pop in occasionally for a visit, and to look over the posts and pics etc.

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#83094 - 11/08/04 01:02 PM Re: Information Required on Breed and Varieties
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have contacted the Secretary of the Dutch Bantam Club, and will be meeting him at the Federation Show, Stafford. From what has been discussed within my other post
http://www.the-coop.org/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000057
it is probably clear that i am 95% in favour of the Red Shouldered White colour, however i will wait until the Federation show and see all the colour varieties in the flesh, then make my final decision.

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