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#85443 - 07/28/09 03:10 PM More Post-op surgery question. Help!
Fowled Out Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Arkansas
Well, I have a problem that has developed following my crop surgery. I really don't know if this is related to the surgery or not, but I think its serious.

After the surgery the bird was having normal looking droppings. As the night wore on, I noticed the droppings on the paper towels were increasingly looking wet. Since early this afternoon all he is pooping is water with the feces being almost non-existant. I did not leave the water in his cage fearing he may over indulge (he's terribly hungry) but was giving it to him every couple of hours. Well its not staying in him. I can see he is pooping out just as much as he is drinking. The water had a little honey and vitamins with electrolytes. I changed it out and omitted the honey and put some homeopathic pills for diarrhea in it now.

Is this normal after surgery? I'm really worried about him dehydrating now. Whats going to happen when I introduce soft foods in a few hours? Should I wait? Anybody know whats going on? I have some BMD powder here that I could add to his water. That usually helps on diarrhea but I am unsure whether I should go that route right now, not knowing if this is normal or not.

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#85444 - 07/28/09 03:27 PM Re: More Post-op surgery question. Help!
Jocelyn Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1467
Loc: Canada
He isn't eating enough to make any solid droppings. He is very hungry and filling up on water. Put the honey back in and he's not got diarrhea, just an empty tummy. As long as he has no build up between the crop and the skin, see if he'd like a little yoghurt. If that's OK, try some soft food in a few more hours. just give him a little at a time, even though he's hungry, as you don't want to open the crop wound.

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#85445 - 07/28/09 05:08 PM Re: More Post-op surgery question. Help!
Fowled Out Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Arkansas
Oh thank you! I was so worried, it was passing through him as fast as he was drinking it! Since it is coming out that route, I can assume it is not leaking through to the skin. There is a little swelling around a couple of the stitches, but I can't detect a water buildup.

Thanks again. He is ravenous right now, so much so I had to remove the newspaper and paper towels earlier today. He was eating them!!

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#85446 - 07/29/09 01:31 AM Re: More Post-op surgery question. Help!
Foehn Offline
Administrator
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1968
Loc: New Zealand
Sounds as though he needs little and often of quality food. As Jocelyn says, make it soft food. You could offer him a little banana, yoghurt, cooked porridge, mashed boiled egg yolk which could be moistened with a little yoghurt, silverbeet (or swiss chard) finely chopped (Just the green part) he should be able to manage this if you keep the portions small. You need to satisfy his appetite a little with the good quality food, which you can gradually increase if all goes well and he is coping with the food.

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#85447 - 07/29/09 09:24 PM Re: More Post-op surgery question. Help!
Fowled Out Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Arkansas
Well I had a setback today. Early afternoon he managed to get his toenail under the top stitch while I was lifting him out and he ripped it out. Of course I was alone at home and didn't have anyone to hold the bird for repairs. Had him belly up with one arm and hand and everything I put near his chest he tried to eat! Best I could do with one hand was stop the bleeding then put wound powder on it. When hubby got home I tried liquid bandaid and also a butterfly strip.

Since he is still having very watery stools I layed some paper towel down to absorb it and he didn't seem interested in it so I left it there to catch his stools. Came back later to find it destroyed (I fear he ate at least a sheet of it) and almost all his water gone. His crop was big! I thought, "Oh no! He probably busted another stitch!" Removed the water and remaining paper. I was going to feed him, but with such a large crop I didn't want to stuff him more. So I waited another hour and came back and picked him up and was holding his crop up to get the contents moving and I then I start to feel wetness. The butterfly strip wasn't really in the right place, it had somehow shifted, and I could detect a slight opening in the skin wound. I also think the crop wound may have opened up and leaked so that must be why I'm feeling wetness. Got hubby out of bed to help put another strip on it to try to close the skin and put the bird to bed for the night with no paper and no water in the cage.

I guess I'm going to have to let the crop wound try to close up again before I re-introduce soft foods again. I was giving him small amounts, a spoonful or two, of baby food, soft scrambled egg, crushed cornflakes softned with milk, yogurt etc., every two to three hours. If the food didn't seem to be going down I would lift his crop and hold for awhile and let the crop muscle move the contents down. Then I would feed him.

I'm not leaving his water in his cage again. He just swelled himself up with that. I'll give him a drink every couple of hours like the food. Tommorrow is going to be rough. I wonder if I need to give him grit now because of the paper towels?

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#85448 - 07/29/09 11:57 PM Re: More Post-op surgery question. Help!
Uno Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 1280
Loc: Canada
Use newspaper to line cage, less edible.

Leave water with bird, but only a small amount in heavy container that can't be knocked over.

Get honey on that wound! If there is festering, stinking flesh, remove it, then honey that incision.

I did crop surgery on my hen, who lived. She spent one day with just liquid. Next day got lay pellets that had been soaked, in small quantites, three times a day. She got soaked pellets three times a day for about 4 days, then dry pellets, but only small amounts.

Grit would not be a good idea yet. Grain is also a bad idea right now.

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#85449 - 07/30/09 10:26 AM Re: More Post-op surgery question. Help!
Fowled Out Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Arkansas
Don't think I need the honey just now. He would probably peck at it if I did use it and then open himself up!

I initially had newspaper down, but he started eating that also, so I removed it. He's on the bare hard plastic liner only now.

His crop did go down overnight. There is a small swelling in it and I am thinking it might be the bits of paper towel. It's soft and moveable, whatever it is.

The two bottom stitches look great. No sign of infection there. The top area, near the crop wound looks OK, but I'm not liking the butterfly strips. They don't seem to be closing the area. It's kind of hard to tell since I put that wound powder on, because it blackens the seam, so to speak. I don't think that liquid bandaid held anything together either. My fear is that the top area, which received the wound powder, is just going to scab over and its going to adhere to the crop wall. I tried moving the skin around this morning. The bottom moves well, the top, I don't know...thats where there is a small lump and the crop wound.

I'm wondering if I should just sterilize some water, rinse that area with it tonight as well as I can to remove the wound powder, and restitch it? Or just leave it alone? No sign of infection that I can see. There is some bruising noticable under the skin around the crop wound, about the size of a quarter, but no redness or obvious swelling.

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#85450 - 07/30/09 11:33 AM Re: More Post-op surgery question. Help!
Jocelyn Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1467
Loc: Canada
Leave it alone, and don't keep lifting the crop if the food "doesn't go down". The crop makes digestive enzymes and is not just a bag for storage. It passes the food along when it's ready. If the crop stick a bit to the outside skin, it's not a really deal. When he feels well, he'll move around more and squabble with other roos and will break up the adhesions himself. Sure, it's best if it doesn't adhere, but while it's not well healed, you might want to leave it alone.

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#85451 - 08/01/09 06:46 AM Re: More Post-op surgery question. Help!
Fowled Out Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Arkansas
Well here's an update. Bird has been up and active since day one. Even though I'm feeding soft foods in small amounts, his crop was expanding causing me to worry he'd pop open where he lost the stitch. I put those two butterfly strips on him and yesterday found one missing. He must have ate it! So I went ahead and used super glue on the area. But he is still passing stools so I guess it hasn't blocked him. Stool still contain alot of water but some soft fecal material is now with them.

He literally attacks anything in my hand when I come to the cage and even jumps up on the bars to get to me! He's wanting to eat.

The wound area still looks good. Only thing I don't like and am worrying about is him gorging himself on anything when I eventually turn him back to his pen. I just don't think an overstretched crop is capable of emptying itself well, and he might have issues with that later.

Other than that, me and him have become best buddies. He likes being held and is curious about the cat and the two little dogs. Hope he turns out to be a nice rooster (that's what I think he is) worth keeping after all this. With my luck, he will probably want to attack me from behind!

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#85452 - 08/11/09 08:24 AM Re: More Post-op surgery question. Help!
Fowled Out Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Arkansas
OK, last update. Bird's last stitch was removed on day ten. I don't know what happened to the middle stitch, must have fallen off. Bird was eating well in small amounts, crop was back to normal size and he was acting fine. I turned him loose in his pen with fellow mates almost a week ago and he is back to normal and happy.

Success!

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