Page 4 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
#92810 - 11/21/10 02:38 AM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Wieslaw]
Henk69 Online   content
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3246
Loc: Netherlands
In these showlines there are often subtle melanizers in play that make a sharper hackle stripe in the cockerels. These are known to clutter (=boost) the peppering; the opposite effect of the ig/ig. Also the body expresses more autosomal red.

Top
#93178 - 12/11/10 04:12 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Henk69]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3877
Loc: Denmark
Is there in Dutch(or any local dialect)any other word for chick than kuiken? I've been trying to google pictures of goldfarbig chicks, but I've found only this one:



It doesn't show details. The chicks don't look particularly chipmunk-like.

Top
#93188 - 12/12/10 04:06 AM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Wieslaw]
Henk69 Online   content
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3246
Loc: Netherlands
The problem may be that "goldfarbig" is german... wink

Top
#93216 - 12/13/10 02:19 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Henk69]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3877
Loc: Denmark
Yes, I know. I've tried gold flitter too, the result was even worse.

Top
#102754 - 03/10/12 05:20 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Wieslaw]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3877
Loc: Denmark
I have found some new pictures and videoes of goldfarbig. My impression is that nearly each second cock has giant leakages of red spilling on the breast:




So it looks like they have red enhancers(as it was said before). But what makes the leakages appear in some but not in the birds on the shows?

Second issue. I have found new pictures of chicks. Although the mature birds look like e+, none of the chicks I've found show the typical eye stripe. Is there any (known) connection between red enhancers and the lack of eye stripes?





Has anybody observed something like this?


Top
#102755 - 03/10/12 09:34 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Wieslaw]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2909
Loc: Australia
It doesn't appear as Di is a candidate for this gold flitter trait, as going by Brumbaugh's description, Di significantly dilutes e+ hen breasts also.

The following on Di (as posted in this thread):

A STUDY OF THE GENETIC CONTROL OF BLACK-RED PIGMENT PATTERNS IN THE FOWL.
Brumbaugh, John Albert
ProQuest Dissertations and Theses; 1963; ProQuest Dissertations & Theses (PQDT).

Test breeding results...
Di/di+ - heterozygote
Quote:

The typical dilute heterozygote chick shows a somewhat narrow striping with a paleness evident in the red areas of the pattern.

The adult females vary but are generally poorly stippled and pale. The paleness is especially evident in the breast. There is a reddish cast in the wing bows.

The adult male heterozygote looks like wild type. In some instances, however, the male type may show some red in the breast.



Di/Di - homozygotes

Quote:

The typical dilute homozygote chick has narrow, pale striping. Sometimes the median back stripe is shortened.

The typical adult male is pale red.

The typical adult female is quite pale. This is especially evident in the red areas of the plumage.

Both heterozygotes & homozygotes have reduced melanin pigmentation in the shanks and feet.

Because both heterozygous and homozygous females exhibit pale, faded plumages, I call this mutant dilute and give it the symbol Di.


* It's a pity not a better description, as it sounds like Di might significantly extend phaeomelanin also, not just a phaeomelanin diluter.

Top
#102756 - 03/10/12 10:07 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2909
Loc: Australia
Yes, the Gold Flitter roosters have red markings on the breast also.
Eg from the Czech website (rough translation):
Quote:
Rooster:
Breast are black with light brown trim in the form of drawings, which may be incomplete , the same applies to the shins and hips


I was told there was a similar correlation with this pullet-bred BBRed Modern Games I have, ie red lacing on the males breast correlates with the outer gold lacing (flitter) on the hens:




The male's red breast markings develops over alot of time though (ie years), so this may explain the variation in exhibition Gold Flitter Leghorn roosters too?
Eg, an 18 week old cockerel (grandson):

*There is also some red lacing developing around upper thigh/hock area.

I don't know if this is any different to other e+/e+ lines, but these ones the cockerels first juvenile breast feathers are salmon, & they start moulting to black around 6 to 7 weeks old.
Eg, the same cockerel above at 7 weeks:


Note, that old rooster above is also an even shade of phaeomelanin - orange/red throughout (simiar to gold flitters), yet the hens are a very pale gold. But this line is in the process of redevelopment, & the following son (plus grandsons) have the typical lighter orange gold neck/saddle, darker wing bow:

* Can't see in the photos, but he has thin red lacing developing on the breast.

This is a grand daughter to the first pair above (daughter to last rooster above).


She has the same grandfather on both paternal & maternal sides.

So although some similarities to Gold Flitter, also some differences, & some way to go to get the clarity of flitter in these Modern Games (a darker gold would help).

P.s. the chick down of these is typical e+:



Top
#102757 - 03/10/12 11:56 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2909
Loc: Australia
it looks like some Welsummer lines don't have much of an eye stripe:

*From Feathersite.



My Pile Modern Game line:
Blue Red cockerel e+/e+ Bl/bl+ i+/i+ segregate (11 days old):


Might be that Bl/bl+ is diluting eumelanin too much. But explains why most of the I/i+ Pile siblings don't have distinctive e+ markings.

There is a red enhancer that somehow increases the red in salmon breasts, plus on wings, but the neck hackles remain a lighter gold shade:

e+/e+ I/i+ Pile Pullet 5mth 3wks old:


Interesting red enhancer.

Here is her sister showing stress marks.

Looks a bit like a ribbon tail in pigeons.

Top
#102824 - 03/13/12 05:03 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: KazJaps]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3877
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Kazjaps
There is a red enhancer that somehow increases the red in salmon breasts, plus on wings, but the neck hackles remain a lighter gold shade:


I have something that sounds like that here with straw colour hackles:




And here with medium gold:




WHAT IS THIS?

Top
#102826 - 03/13/12 08:13 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Wieslaw]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2909
Loc: Australia
Yes, yours have even more red on the wings, etc, but neck hackles remain gold. Is there extension of red on any roosters?

My Piles I think are not extending phaeomelanin, as the roosters have clean eumelanin breast & the hens it's more reddening of what phaeomelanin is already there (a flaw noted in the Modern Game Standard, ie ruddiness in e+/e+ hens). But it does look like a darker phaeomelanin (red) on wing bows & back of Pile males. The neck/saddle hackles remain orange gold:


-------------
The following OEGB was at a local show:

She probably is Bl/Bl Spangled (e+/e+ mo/mo) (there were also Blue Spangled). Diluting all eumelanin highlights how much the phaeomelanin is modified (intensified & extended) in exhibition Spangled OEG hens. Yet the equivalent Spangled male is not eumelanin restricted, may have dark bronzing on the black at most, but not eumelanin restriction like Co, Db, nor Mh really.
Eg Spangled OEGB:


Although this following Spangled hen has lighter gold neck hackles:

Maybe the same or similar modifier(s) are in Dark Brown Leghorns? Really hard to tell whether these Spangled OEGB have e+ or eb, going by adult female phenotype (ie no obvious salmon breast - heavily modified).

Top
Page 4 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >


Moderator:  Admin @ The Coop, Henk69 
Who's Online
1 registered (Henk69), 16 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box