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#103410 - 04/18/12 01:02 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Henk69]
Wieslaw Offline
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Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3877
Loc: Denmark
Looks like it. Has anybody described a melanizer that only melanizes females? I have not heard it.(apart from black heads on some Dutch/Belgian ? breeds).

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#103416 - 04/19/12 12:56 AM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Wieslaw]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
Some Belgiam (breeders) speak Dutch others French, some both !!
Why WAS a vault lethal in males and not in females !?
Why IS a vault not more lethal in males as in females !?


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#103481 - 04/24/12 07:08 AM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Wieslaw]
Wieslaw Offline
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Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3877
Loc: Denmark
The cocks look rather dark red, and the hens look red enhanced too. Maybe an alternative explanation could be, that they have a red enhancer that prevents melanization in cocks but not entirely in hens? Or is it too far-fetched?

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#103482 - 04/24/12 07:35 AM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Wieslaw]
Henk69 Online   content
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Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3246
Loc: Netherlands
I think that the melanizer in play also enhances the red. I see this too in dark lakenvelders. Again deja vu... wink

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#103483 - 04/24/12 07:36 AM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Wieslaw]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
The influence of the hormone testosterone !

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#115314 - 12/23/15 04:13 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: SilverSilkie]
Wieslaw Offline
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Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3877
Loc: Denmark
A very beautiful video with silver flitter leghorns. Pay attention to the fact that the flitter is also present on some females breasts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRVKwtdZ5kk

It also looks like the black hackle stripes are not necessarily followed by black stripes on the saddles

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#115315 - 12/23/15 10:56 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Wieslaw]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2909
Loc: Australia
Beautiful hens, much better than the gold version.

Do you think the hens are Bl/bl+ blue or is this just the effect of silver blending in the eumelanin? I've got a silver pencilled Wyandotte pullet that is similar, hard to tell if blue or not.

It seems slightly less neck hackle striping too.

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#115316 - 12/23/15 11:39 PM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: Henk69]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2909
Loc: Australia
With my test breeding of Coffee-laced (Australian Pit Game), I've segregated another e+/e+ phenotype in BC1 (P1 ER/ER CL roo X e+/e+ wildtype, F1 ER/e+ CL hens x e+/e+ wildtype = e+/e+ BC1).

All the following pullets are e+/e+:




The older pullet is paler, only slight salmon on upper breast. The younger 2 have more prominent salmon breast colour (might change as they age?):


They have one dose of a eumelanin restrictor (similar to Di & Db), plus het. for lacing mutations - including a neck hackle melaniser. In day-old chicks I can't tell laced from non-laced:


* left chick e+/e+ with one dose of Di-like mutation, right chick e+/e+ without Di-like mutation.

I'm thinking the head/neck melanisation might actually come from a black pit game hen, their great grandmother (mother of CL jnr pit game roo). Their great grandfather - original CL pit game roo wasn't melanised, only slight tip lacing on breast & wings. Here is one purebred CL pit game ckl with a melanised head/neck:

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#115317 - 12/24/15 12:04 AM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2909
Loc: Australia

Now with the e+/e+ wild-type BC1 chicks (one depicted on right above, without Di-like mutation), something I had hoped for....

Both chicks (2 hatched) have much darker breasts than the purebred e+/e+ wild-type Modern Games (not showing juvenile orange-salmon breast (found in both males & females) from the flitter line):


Both chicks are showing some part lacing in wings, more melanised base of neck, tail, etc (often with light feather shaft):



So I think I segregated the lacing (Pg) & melanisers this time without any eumelanin restrictors (except maybe one dose of the MG flitter mutation).


Edited by KazJaps (12/24/15 12:09 AM)
Edit Reason: clarified...

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#115318 - 12/24/15 12:34 AM Re: Calling all Germans: Goldfarbig and Wildfarbig [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2909
Loc: Australia
There are 2 F1 ER/e+ CL hens (mothers), the following showing how they changed in tone of eumelanin as they matured (ie went from black eumelanin to a bronzed dark brown):


Notice too how the base ground colour of phaeomelanin is much closer in tone to a Dark Indian Game hen without a red enhancer (ie brownish), not gold like a Gold Sebright. I think this might be because they don't have Co.

------------------------------
* Also hatched in the CL BC1 were:
- ER Brown Reds,
- some hatched ER black with faint brown face tinge, but turned out Brown Red -slightly more phaeomelanin lace on breast & peppering,
- ER Ginger (without lacing),
- ER Coffee-laced, &
- 2 e+/e+ het. Di-like cockerels with extra phaeomelanin developing on breast, but unfortunately these 2 died young (escaped - pythons probably got at night). Don't know if they would have developed lacing with age.

So with these results & previous CL F1 & BC1, it is clear that there is no close linkage between the lacing phenotype (Pg? & melaniser?) and the Di-like mutation.


Edited by KazJaps (12/24/15 12:56 AM)
Edit Reason: added last 2 paragraphs

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