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#89904 - 06/20/10 05:56 AM Re: Marek's Vaccination--Hen Raising Chicks [Re: Poultry Doc]
Kathy W. Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 273
Loc: New York
I received a shipment of chicks this summer. They all appeared healthy: cheeping, running around, eating, and drinking. In the first evening I found two dead, and the next day another died. All three were the same breed. Over the course of the first week, two others (different breed) developed symptoms that looked like Marek's to me--leg on one side becoming paralyzed. I had never seen it in such young birds. Though it stands to reason that it could take babies out fast. Anyway, I culled those two.

I had vaccinated the chicks. (This hatchery does not vaccinate prior to shipment, but I like the hatchery very much. He pays more attention to the "type" of his stock than the big hatcheries seem to.) Anyway, all the others seem fine; they are 7 weeks old now.

It has been my understanding that Marek's is "everywhere" since it is carried by wild birds--like labial herpes in humans. Is that not the case? How much does its presence vary geographically?

Kathy

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#89910 - 06/20/10 06:54 AM Re: Marek's Vaccination--Hen Raising Chicks [Re: Kathy W.]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3751
Loc: Denmark
How old were the chicks that died? Labial herpes in humans is only transmited by direct contact (kissing or alike) between the person who is in "virus shedding phase" and another person. It is not carried by wild birds.

The main culprit for spreading Marek's disease to every corner of the globe are the international poultry consortia plus their non-effective vaccinations. Spreading by wild birds is only of secondary (and limited) importance in my opinion. It is the same situation as with Avian Influenza. The major outbreaks of diseases follow usually the routes of transportation of the poutry and not the routes of migratory birds.

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#89934 - 06/20/10 11:49 PM Re: Marek's Vaccination--Hen Raising Chicks [Re: Kathy W.]
Poultry Doc Offline
Feather

Registered: 06/11/10
Posts: 37
Loc: Idaho
Marek's spreads by feather dander easily scattered by wind. We were taught in college that it is better to assume a farm to be challenged by Marek's than to assume otherwise because of the seriousness of the disease. However, if your farm is the only farm within a 200-mile radius, then that gives you some peace of mind.

I am definitely inclined to think that what killed your chicks in the first week is not Marek's. There are so many possible causes of lameness in that period, such as hatchery problems of temperature, prolonged pull-out, poor selection, etc. Even the manner by which the chicks were placed and brooded in the first few days can cause that.

Also, it is not right to vaccinate in the farm where it is known that Marek's already exists. The chicks have to be vaccinated prior to arrival in this farm or else the vaccination objective will fail.

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#89937 - 06/21/10 05:01 AM Re: Marek's Vaccination--Hen Raising Chicks [Re: Poultry Doc]
Kathy W. Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 273
Loc: New York
Opps. Seems my comparison to labial herpes in humans was confusing. What I meant is that LIKE labial herpes in the human environment, I thought Marek's was everywhere in the chicken environment. It's encouraging to think that the wild birds aren't the major source.

The chicks in question didn't arrive lame. It was quite notable that all of the chicks were active, eating, and drinking on being put in the brooder. None showed any signs of lameness on arrival.

The first two that died were dead the evening of arrival, and the third one was dead the next day. So they were 2 and 3 days old. These never showed any symptoms except death! Usually there are a couple weak ones in a shipment, and I'm not surprised when they don't make it. I was shocked when I came home to find these two dead. The two that developed the lameness were between 1 and 2 weeks old. Do you think it wouldn't be Marek's because it doesn't show up that early?

I'm afraid I don't have much choice about vaccinating here "on farm." I don't have the facilities or time to receive shipments and hatch chicks other than here where I live and keep the chickens. The chicks are hatched in the house. They are brooded in a bathroom. They don't go out to the barns/coops until a week after they are vaccinated. The coops they go into are cleaned and oxined before the chicks are put into them. I care for the chicks first thing in the morning before I go out to the barns/coops. It's the best I can do even if it's not optimal.

I haven't seen Markek's in any of the adults since I started doing this. So it's either helping or I've got an expensive, time intensive placebo effect. I don't think I want to do the "test" and stop vaccinating for a year or two and see what happens. I do have a natural experiment this year, though. I have a few hens sitting on eggs. I won't be vaccinating any chicks I get this way. We'll see.

Kathy

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#90363 - 07/11/10 11:48 PM Re: Marek's Vaccination--Hen Raising Chicks [Re: Poultry Doc]
GHD Fans Offline
New Egg

Registered: 07/09/10
Posts: 3
Loc: VA
I'm not really sure what would be the point of your action.

_________________________
GHDcheap ghd

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#90368 - 07/12/10 05:06 AM Re: Marek's Vaccination--Hen Raising Chicks [Re: GHD Fans]
D. Pollock Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 400
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: GHD Fans
I'm not really sure what would be the point of your action.


"Nor I with yours"...So what is your point of action in regards to your 'political morphing' montage and the subject of Poultry Health?

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#90383 - 07/13/10 11:21 AM Re: Marek's Vaccination--Hen Raising Chicks [Re: D. Pollock]
Rogo Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 469
Loc: Arizona

The political morphing says to me that all politicians are the same. And because this is a poultry forum, we will be in deep doo-doo for a long time due to living in a country full of wusses who won't overthrow a bad government that wants to make the U.S. a muslim country.

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#90387 - 07/13/10 07:13 PM Re: Marek's Vaccination--Hen Raising Chicks [Re: Rogo]
D. Pollock Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 400
Loc: USA
Rogo:
Quote:
The political morphing says to me that all politicians are the same. And because this is a poultry forum, we will be in deep doo-doo for a long time due to living in a country full of wusses who won't overthrow a bad government that wants to make the U.S. a muslim country.


Very interesting comment- and SOooo glad, that I received an answer to my post> (although-not from the 'poster')! Now, with that being said... 'wusses', as you say... have been around since the beginning of time! I do find your comments about 'Muslim' most alarming however...Now let's get back to poultry: BAD/GOOD Government should not really have an effect on our love of 'Poultry' and our desire to raise and enjoy our most 'feathered-fancy' Friends!


Edited by D. Pollock (07/14/10 07:47 AM)

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