Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
#91532 - 09/08/10 11:39 PM Chick down phenotypes and genotypes
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands
On request a topic about chick down phenotypes and the genotypes to go with it.
We want to keep this topic clean so every off topic remark will be removed!

Kick-off
e+: chipmunk pattern
eb: helmet pattern
eWh: little pattern (overall yellowish)
ER: overall dark pattern, dark legs.
E: penguin pattern

leg color often yellowish at start.

Pictures welcome...

Top
#91533 - 09/08/10 11:52 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Henk69]
GSC Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 752
Loc: United Kingdom
Hope this helps.
_________________________
I'm 61 and have 6 dogs, one cat and 5 grandkids plus an au pair

Top
#91540 - 09/09/10 04:36 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: GSC]
GSC Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 752
Loc: United Kingdom
Here are 3 chicks hatched 5 days ago. Dad is cream choc partridge and Mom is a cream carrier choc partidge. The male has an issue with throwing unpatterned chicks sometimes although possibly the female too.


Henk69: typical eb head pattern, allthough not strict helmet.
_________________________
I'm 61 and have 6 dogs, one cat and 5 grandkids plus an au pair

Top
#91541 - 09/09/10 04:51 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: GSC]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3757
Loc: Denmark
I think the meaning of this thread is like that : you know and are 100 % sure that for example your chicks are pure partridge(concentric pencilling) ebPg/ebPg s+/s+. You make a distinct picture and place it here with discription. It is not so much for discussion but rather for presentation for others. If somebody has doubts/problems with a picture, it can be discussed in a separate thread. Am I on the right track?

This can be deleted.

Top
#91542 - 09/09/10 05:01 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Wieslaw]
RuffEnuff Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 1148
Loc: Australia
here is my photo bucket file, many i know the off one i guess:

http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/ruffEnuff_photos/down%20colour/

i shall make a point of adding to it.

Top
#91552 - 09/09/10 03:46 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: RuffEnuff]
Chook-in-Eire Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 733
Loc: Ireland
eb (melanized)
Barnevelder, double-laced, eb/eb Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml

Top
#91556 - 09/09/10 07:39 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Chook-in-Eire]
Poultch Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 660
Loc: New Zealand
Here's my 2 cents worth (currency: NZ$), considering the exchange rate, probably not worth much:

E/eWh, Co/co, S/S (S/-), B/b (B/-)


Er/eWh, S/- Co/co Id/- (and middle chick is highly suspected Co/Co) [Id=Inhibitor of dermal melanin]


e+/eWh, I/i+ & i+/i+



Edited by Henk69 (09/09/10 11:26 PM)

Top
#91608 - 09/13/10 04:27 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: GSC]
GSC Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 752
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Henk69
typical e^b head pattern, allthough not strict helmet.

Would some be kind enough to post an eb chick with a 'strict helemet' please? blush
_________________________
I'm 61 and have 6 dogs, one cat and 5 grandkids plus an au pair

Top
#91621 - 09/13/10 03:49 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: GSC]
Chook-in-Eire Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 733
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: Henk69
Would some be kind enough to post an eb chick with a 'strict helemet' please? blush


Top
#91622 - 09/13/10 04:07 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Chook-in-Eire]
Chook-in-Eire Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 733
Loc: Ireland
Seriously though,
this is the best I could find in my photo archive. Note the light-coloured neckline. It's a Barnevelder female.


Edit (addition): Thanks to GSC pointing me back to an old thread I started here, I've found better 'helmet-clad' chicks:

Golden Laced Wyandottes eb/eb, db+/db+, Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml, Co/Co


Edited by Chook-in-Eire (09/14/10 03:27 AM)

Top
#92284 - 10/25/10 11:52 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Henk69]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3757
Loc: Denmark
Most of the following pictures come from My Pet Chicken hatchery:
http://www.mypetchicken.com/catalog/Day-Old-Baby-Chicks-c36.aspx

Genotypes are from :
http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html

Lakenvelder-pattern: eb/eb Co/Co plus melanizer(s)(which one??)



Quail Pattern: e+/e+ Co/Co Ml/Ml s+/s+




Single Laced Silver on eb : eb/eb Pg/Pg Ml/Ml Co/Co S/S



Single Laced Gold on eb: eb/eb Pg/Pg Ml/Ml Co/Co s+/s+



Top
#92285 - 10/25/10 11:56 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Wieslaw]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3757
Loc: Denmark
Single Laced Gold Henny feathering on birchen: ER/ER Pg/Pg Db/Db Ml/Ml Co/Co Hf/Hf s+/s+



Birchen : ER/ER S/S



Autosomal barred on birchen, gold, henny feathering : ER/ER Pg/Pg Db/Db Hf/Hf s+/s+


Buff Columbian: eb/eb/ Co/Co s+/s+


Silver Spangled on birchen: ER/ER Pg/Pg Db/Db Ml/Ml S/S



Edited by Wieslaw (10/27/10 02:03 AM)
Edit Reason: Corrected Hf

Top
#92308 - 10/27/10 01:44 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Wieslaw]
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands
Note that Hf Henny Feathering is (incomplete) dominant.

Top
#92412 - 11/02/10 01:34 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Henk69]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3757
Loc: Denmark

Autosomal barred on birchen, silver, henny feathering : ER/ER Pg/Pg Db/Db Hf/Hf S/S



Top
#92585 - 11/11/10 07:34 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Wieslaw]
RuffEnuff Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 1148
Loc: Australia
marbled sebright:





lavender on the right, normal silver on left.
ER, S and Lav+ and lav also possible Hf

however most likely not homozygous for anything.

Top
#93471 - 12/22/10 10:31 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: RuffEnuff]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3757
Loc: Denmark
Silver Quill:e+/e+ S/S+ Pg/Pg Db/Db'




Leghorns: chipmunk e+/e+ s+(background),silver chipmunk e+/e+ S(left), dark brown eb/eb and ?(foreground)


Top
#94182 - 01/25/11 07:21 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Chook-in-Eire]
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 629
Loc: Missouri
I want to add my chipmunk striped Large Fowl Araucana chick photo's. I have 5 right now and no two are the same. I am amazed at the subtle differences in the striping, some are complete and bold, some a snip/single line on the head, irregular jagged line, thick and thin lines, bold and fuzzy lines, all sorts of differences.

I'd love to be able to "read" these patterns if they actually designate a particular color or pattern or sex of the chick. I am particularly intrigued by the chick with blue wings.








Top
#94469 - 02/12/11 08:37 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Smooth Mule]
Dan P.
Unregistered


Buff laced brahma chicks:


I think these chicks are something like: eb/eb, Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml, Co/Co, I/?, Bl/?
They could possibly also have mahogany, dilute, or autosomal red.

This is the chick down coloration that typically results in my best marked buff laced brahma adults.

Adult coloration can be seen here: http://www.oneearthfarm.com/gallery/chickengallery.html

Dan



Edited by Henk69 (02/12/11 12:15 PM)

Top
#95204 - 03/16/11 06:39 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: ]
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 629
Loc: Missouri
Here is a chick that hatched a couple of days ago from my mixed colors Araucana coop. No clues about which hen but the rooster was the only rooster at that time. I don't have them separated into breeding pens yet.

Here is the chick




Edited by Smooth Mule (03/16/11 06:40 PM)

Top
#95784 - 04/17/11 07:50 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Smooth Mule]
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands

Top
#96039 - 04/28/11 06:21 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Henk69]
RyanZierke Offline
Chicken

Registered: 04/13/11
Posts: 117
Loc: Minnesota
These chicks are ER/e+ Db/db+ Pg/pg+ Ml/ml+ Mh/mh+ Ig+/ig s+


Edited by Henk69 (04/30/11 01:40 AM)
Edit Reason: Ig+/ig

Top
#96075 - 04/29/11 08:19 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Wieslaw]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2799
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Wieslaw
Silver Quill:e+/e+ S/S+ Pg/Pg Db/Db'





These two Silver Quill have very dark legs for e+ day-olds. Either another E locus allele base (eg ER) or another mutation at the Id locus (ie not Id, nor id+)? Could be e+ id^M?

Top
#96079 - 04/30/11 01:41 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: RyanZierke]
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: RyanZierke
These chicks are ER/e+ Db/db+ Pg/pg+ Ml/ml+ Mh/mh+ Ig+/ig s+



What cross are they?

Top
#96080 - 04/30/11 02:13 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Henk69]
Poultch Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 660
Loc: New Zealand
ER's can look very eb like:

ER, S, Pg/Pg, ml+/ml+, co+/co+, db+/db+

Top
#96088 - 04/30/11 08:47 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Henk69]
RyanZierke Offline
Chicken

Registered: 04/13/11
Posts: 117
Loc: Minnesota
Originally Posted By: Henk69
Originally Posted By: RyanZierke
These chicks are ER/e+ Db/db+ Pg/pg+ Ml/ml+ Mh/mh+ Ig+/ig s+



What cross are they?

Citron Spangled Hamburg bantam rooster x Silver Duckwing OEGB hen.

Top
#96137 - 05/01/11 12:48 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Poultch]
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Poultch
ER's can look very eb like:

ER, S, Pg/Pg, ml+/ml+, co+/co+, db+/db+



How do you know they are pure for Pg?

Top
#97999 - 07/28/11 03:05 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Henk69]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1991
Loc: Nicaragua
Heavy Melanized Er/Er chick


Top
#99136 - 09/22/11 05:55 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Marvin]
Jenks Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 05/13/10
Posts: 234
Loc: USA
Does anyone happen to have a splash e+/e+ photo?

Top
#99138 - 09/22/11 06:51 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Jenks]
Piet Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 10/07/10
Posts: 262
Loc: Belgium
If I remember correct mine were pretty pale.
Just light reddish striping on yellow background.
no photo

Top
#99140 - 09/22/11 07:10 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Piet]
Jenks Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 05/13/10
Posts: 234
Loc: USA
Mine looks pale reddish like that with almost silvery bluish stripes - the head and back stripes. I'm not sure what I expected.....but I was a little surprised.

Top
#99142 - 09/22/11 07:44 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Jenks]
Piet Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 10/07/10
Posts: 262
Loc: Belgium
Sounds like lavendar???

Top
#99145 - 09/22/11 08:15 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Piet]
Jenks Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 05/13/10
Posts: 234
Loc: USA
I will get a photo this evening!

Edited to say - seems more appropriate to put in the GGG thread!


Edited by Jenks (09/22/11 05:26 PM)

Top
#99272 - 09/27/11 02:28 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Poultch]
Poultch Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 660
Loc: New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Poultch

Er/eWh, S/- Co/co Id/- (and middle chick is highly suspected Co/Co) [Id=Inhibitor of dermal melanin]



the middle chick is wrong. it was: ER, Pg, Co

Top
#99436 - 10/08/11 06:34 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Jenks]
RuffEnuff Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 1148
Loc: Australia
here is an interesting one ER/eb or eWh; I/i; s+. i often get blacks with a red spot somewhere this one is dominant white with the normal black spots associated with dominant white on ER plus the red spot:




Top
#99702 - 10/23/11 08:13 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: RuffEnuff]
RuffEnuff Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 1148
Loc: Australia
here are a couple of my sebright crosses that hatched to day.

fairly normal sebright down, ER gold:



now this i thought was interesting, still ER gold:


Top
#101439 - 01/13/12 06:32 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: RuffEnuff]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
What should be a bearded Silkie Silver Quail eb/eb S/- * S/S Co/Co Ml/Ml







Edited by SilverSilkie (01/13/12 06:40 AM)

Top
#101503 - 01/15/12 04:48 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: SilverSilkie]
Angela Offline
Feather

Registered: 02/19/11
Posts: 23
Loc: France
black silkies can have black chick down without any white at all ( will make a good picture of that soon )

Here is a choco/bleu showgirl pullet :

E/E S/- (ou s+/-) Bl/bl+ choc/- Ml/Ml




And the chick down of a lavender cuckoo silkie ( heterozygote for cuckoo )should be : E/E S/S B/b+ lav/lav Ml/Ml




( sorry again , but my computer don't want to open the option to insert an image , so can someone change the links into pictures ? )



Edited by Henk69 (01/16/12 12:29 AM)

Top
#101508 - 01/15/12 08:20 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Angela]
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 629
Loc: Missouri
Any chick down photo's of eb/eb S/S ? Silver Partridge?

Top
#101979 - 02/05/12 05:14 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Smooth Mule]
Angela Offline
Feather

Registered: 02/19/11
Posts: 23
Loc: France
Chicks wich came out of a cross between a dark red mahony silkie rooster based on eWh and a gold pencilled silkie hen .



( Henk help !)

should be : eb/eWh , s+/s+ ( s+/-) Db/db+ , Co/co+ (?) Pg/pg+ , Ml/ml+ , Mh/mh+ .


Edited by Henk69 (02/06/12 12:17 AM)

Top
#102244 - 02/17/12 04:12 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: RuffEnuff]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
Originally Posted By: RuffEnuff
here is an interesting one ER/eb or eWh; I/i; s+. i often get blacks with a red spot somewhere this one is dominant white with the normal black spots associated with dominant white on ER plus the red spot:





Red spash white "rs" Recessive. Two copies of this gene give a white bird with spashes of red and black. Chicks are white with a red head spot. This gene may be extinct now. It was first isolated in a line of Rhode Island Reds, but it was not maintained nor has it be re-identified.
from : http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page3.html


Edited by SilverSilkie (02/17/12 04:13 AM)

Top
#103375 - 04/14/12 08:46 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: SilverSilkie]
M. J. Conley Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 183
Loc: Australia
I'm attempting to get hom E 'with no modifiers' (all other plumage 'genes' wildtype) to verify what hatchdown and adult plumage is, BUT aren't the wildtype alleles in the other plumage 'genes' affecting phenotype so it is impossible to get what say hom E phenotype is without modifications,
not feeling so clever, mark

Top
#103378 - 04/15/12 04:10 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: M. J. Conley]
Htul Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 495
Loc: Australia
No doubt they do affect each other: so really, all you can aim for is "E on an otherwise wild-type background" (which is what I thought you were after?)

The potential challenge though is if you have "non wildtype" other alleles that aren't phenotypically evident such as modifiers that don't modify the basic e+ appearance of brown leghorns, but might influence expression of E: eg. you crossing to get the E-like allele that you have onto the brown leghorn background that you have may look different to the same E-like allele crossed onto another strain of brown leghorn.

Top
#103379 - 04/15/12 04:39 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Htul]
M. J. Conley Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 183
Loc: Australia
Thanks Htul, i had to read that 2nd paragraph several times (English was my least best subject at school)..
Are you saying that other modifiers on Light Brown Leghorns that we don't know about yet would modify the E alleles effect on the phenotype?

Top
#103380 - 04/15/12 05:59 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: M. J. Conley]
Htul Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 495
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: M. J. Conley
...Are you saying that other modifiers on Light Brown Leghorns that we don't know about yet would modify the E alleles effect on the phenotype?


Potentially, yes - but not just "modifiers on Light Brown Leghorns": there could be lots of such modifiers that might act on non-wildtype alleles, that still have no apparent effect on wildtype. So, sure, we take it for granted that light brown leghorns (as a proxy for RJF) are "wildtype" - but how much so? We really oversimply it when we say "light brown leghorn have a "+" genotype except for w/w and Id/Id": surely that is not entirely correct - else why does a leghorn lay say 200+ eggs per year, whereas the RJF would be lucky to lay 20 in a year? (and can anybody claim, with absolute certainty, that such production traits have absolutely no pleiotropic effect on plumage genetics?)

For a related reason, I was inspired to create the following thread on An issue with the use of RJF as a wildtype standard which drew very little interest or comment (other than a lone comment by Kazjaps) - clearly nobody else views this as a potential problem.

Cheers,
htul

Top
#103382 - 04/15/12 04:45 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Htul]
M. J. Conley Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 183
Loc: Australia
Thanks Htul, yep, with you now. And I remember that previous thread, but reread it anyway, mark

Top
#103391 - 04/17/12 08:24 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: M. J. Conley]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2799
Loc: Australia
Considering there don't seem to be as many mutations/modifiers in other poultry species as with chickens, I thought it would be interesting looking at other species day-old chick down MC1R E locus mutations (ie less worries as to whether other mutations modifying E locus alleles).

eg, Turkeys MC1R - two mutations:
(photos from Feathersite and Porter's Rare Heritage Turkeys)
for comparison - wild-type:


Black


--------------
Black-winged Bronze


The last one is interesting in that it is a recessive eumelanising MC1R mutation. Usually MC1R dominant mutations increase eumelanin & recessives reduce eumelanin.

These two mutations have been sequenced:

Variability of the melanocortin 1 receptor (MC1R) gene explains the segregation of the bronze locus in turkey (Meleagris gallopavo).
Vidal O, Viñas J, Pla C.
Poult Sci. 2010 Aug;89(8):1599-602.
Full Paper

p.s. both of the above MC1R turkey mutation alleles are different mutations to chicken E, ER-Leghorn and ER-Fayoumi.

----------------------------
In the above journal paper they also mention the recessive eumelanising mutation in guinea fowl as another MC1R mutation, ie Purple:
(photos from Guinea fowl International website)

wild-type guinea fowl chick:


Royal Purple:


This recessive eumelanising MC1R mutation has been sequenced:

Melanism in guinea fowl (Numida meleagris) is associated with a deletion of Phenylalanine-256 in the MC1R gene.
Vidal O, Araguas RM, Fernández E, Heras S, Sanz N, Pla C.
Anim Genet. 2010 Dec;41(6):656-8.
abstract

-------------------
Interesting how all these MC1R eumelanising mutations add white to day-old chick down. The turkey black mutation is very similar in phenotype to the chicken E allele, ie down is white ventrally & face, plus wing flights, and the rest black. Plus epidermal pigment on the shanks.

Top
#103748 - 05/13/12 01:06 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: KazJaps]
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands
These are a mix of dun silver duckwing males and dun gold duckwing female chicks:



The females are S-Id/-, the males s+-Id/S-id+
Father: gold duckwing modern english game bantam with yellow legs
Mothers: khaki silver duckwing dutch bantam

Top
#104282 - 06/17/12 08:46 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Henk69]
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 629
Loc: Missouri


Edited by Henk69 (06/17/12 11:19 PM)

Top
#104305 - 06/19/12 05:24 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Smooth Mule]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3757
Loc: Denmark
Yes.

Top
#104425 - 06/27/12 09:21 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Wieslaw]
Smooth Mule Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 629
Loc: Missouri
Chocolate (recessive/sex linked).....this is the beginning of my LF Chocolate Araucana project





Edited by Smooth Mule (06/27/12 09:31 PM)

Top
#104770 - 07/15/12 12:33 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: ssc]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
E: penguin pattern
B: white dot on the back of the head
...

Top
#104772 - 07/15/12 01:59 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: ssc]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3757
Loc: Denmark
Just a reminder: the idea with this thread was to present the pictures of the chicks with known genotypes(more or less sure). Questions are to be asked in ordinary threads. It will be impossible to weed out 'the noise'.

Top
#105668 - 09/04/12 09:59 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Wieslaw]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1991
Loc: Nicaragua
Crele Old English Game, Wildtype e+ sexlinked barring, autosexing breed, hens show normal duckwing chick down, males show a diluted chick down and a yellow headspot





Edited by Marvin (09/04/12 09:59 AM)

Top
#106273 - 10/22/12 02:56 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Jenks]
SilverSilkie Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 1125
Loc: Belgium
Originally Posted By: Jenks
Does anyone happen to have a splash e+/e+ photo?


This are chicks from Blue Silver Partridge X Blue Silver Partridge. Since they have so pale down I think they are Splash but on eb



I expected Splash Partridge to look as this one eb/eb S/S * S/- Pg/!? Co/!? Bl/Bl :


Or should it look as this one, maybe here double doses Columbia Co/Co and no Pattern gene pg+/pg+ !? :

Top
#107472 - 12/22/12 12:39 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: KazJaps]
Canuck_Bock_RAT Offline
Chicken

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 104
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: KazJaps
Considering there don't seem to be as many mutations/modifiers in other poultry species as with chickens, I thought it would be interesting looking at other species day-old chick down MC1R E locus mutations (ie less worries as to whether other mutations modifying E locus alleles).


Heel low:

Turkeys have about nine colour sites, chickens (excluding the e-series, what 15 to 20 give or take the new fangled ones like dull black (mz), etc.?).

I will post here and in the following posts, photos of four of the heritage turkeys that we have that express Black MC1R E locus mutations.

Photos shown are of day old poults, older poults and then adults in females and males PLUS some feathers for examples since many will not know what some of these turkeys look like.

EYES: Many of the adult black based turkeys have blue rims in their brown eyes with varying widths in the blue. I have included photos of eye colour...so far, not positive on this, but a hunch is that black based turkeys have blue rimmed brown eyes (is there a correlation here, black = blue in eyesÉÉ) BUT I will keep watching to see if this is always true or just something I have noted commonly with some exceptions. For what it is worth, very pretty...looking into the depths of the windows into the souls of these wise regal birds...heritage turkey eyes! And I must state, very patient too...would you have sat so still with me FLASHING camera pic after camera pic. Tolerant, patient and beau pretty!




RUSTY BLACK
Rusty Black - (B/b"+, R"+"/r)

Rusty Black - Black based turkey with incredible diversity in feather expression. White, black, reds, creams and combinations of all these. Speckling on cream, on red, on black bases. Toms have copper metallic in their plumage.



Rusty Black poult - male day old.




Rusty Black poult getting older.




Rusty Black tom.




Rusty Black tom plumage.




Eye - Rusty Black tom.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm

Top
#107473 - 12/22/12 12:40 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Canuck_Bock_RAT]
Canuck_Bock_RAT Offline
Chicken

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 104
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Heel low:

DILUTE RUSTY BLACK
Dilute Rusty Black - Rusty Black (B/b"+, R"+"/r) PLUS Narragansett (female ng/- & male ng/ng)

Dilute Rusty Black - Another "black" based turkey but add in a diluted quality that produces an even preditableness not found in the Rusty Blacks. Hens are a grey base with black markings. Toms have a metallic copper sheen.



Dilute Rusty Black poult.




Two Dilute Rusty Black turkey pullets.



Dilute Rusty Black turkey pullet body feathers.




Dilute Rusty Black tom.



Dilute Rusty Black tom feathers.




Eye - Dilute Rusty Black pullet.



Eye - Dilute Rusty Black tom.




Comparison of Rusty Black poult-older poult, (top) and Dilute Rusty Black poult (bottom).

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm

Top
#107474 - 12/22/12 12:41 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Canuck_Bock_RAT]
Canuck_Bock_RAT Offline
Chicken

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 104
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Heel low:

JERSEY BUFF
Jersey Buff - (B/B, r/r)

Jersey Buffs - Jersey Buffs are a rich reddish-buff complimented with white in wings and tail feathers with a pretty buff ring. Used in the development of the Bourbon Reds, the colour pattern in both is the same. Jersey Buffs are red (r/r) on a black (B/B) background with white underfeathers (so makes for a cleaner carcass).




Jersey Buff poult.



Jersey Buff older poult.




Jersey Buff - two hens and one tom.




Some people do not know this, but both genders of turkeys will strut...it is a way to express dominance and this Jersey Buff hen is strutting her stuff.




Jersey Buff tom.





Eye - Jersey Buff hen.



Eye - Jersey Buff tom.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm

Top
#107475 - 12/22/12 12:43 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Canuck_Bock_RAT]
Canuck_Bock_RAT Offline
Chicken

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 104
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Heel low:

LILAC
Lilac - (B/B, r/r, D/d"+")

Lilac - Striking rich lilac with barred red tail feathers, our Lilacs are red (r/r), black (B/B), and heterozygous for slate (D/d"+") with white underfeathers.





Lilac poult day old.




Lilac hens.



Another item people that don`t own turks may not know, some hens have beards...yes, the dark wiry like protrusions from their chest. Here is LoREDa, and her beard!



Lilac hen feathers, donation by LoREDa.




Lilac toms.





Eye - Lilac hen.




Eye - Lilac tom.

Hope this helps. :-D

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm

Top
#107679 - 01/07/13 03:13 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Canuck_Bock_RAT]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3757
Loc: Denmark
Here is a picture from CJR


Top
#107690 - 01/08/13 03:45 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Wieslaw]
CJR Online   content
Coop Master

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 8486
Loc: Montana
These are Cream (Citroen) Mille Fleur Dutch chicks. Most all my Millies carry (ig) and so produce both varieties for me. CJR
Thank you Wieslaw.....


Edited by CJR (01/08/13 03:46 PM)

Top
#107712 - 01/12/13 02:17 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: CJR]
Wieslaw Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3757
Loc: Denmark
Here are pictures from CJR:





There is one chick from each hen. Cream Mille Fleur cock, Wheaten hen and Cream Light Brown hen-full sisters! Chick on left is out of the Wheaten hen, on right, out of CLB hen, full sister.


Edited by CJR (08/22/13 04:59 PM)

Top
#109177 - 04/05/13 10:39 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Wieslaw]
Marvin Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1991
Loc: Nicaragua
can anybody confirm different e+ e alleles? so far I've seen the Red Jungle fowl and the Grey Jungle fowl, which also have a wildtype(chipmunk) chick down, but dont know if they are one and the same

Top
#109320 - 04/12/13 02:21 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Marvin]
a3riverschick Offline
Bantam

Registered: 11/23/12
Posts: 56
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Hi,
Those of you experienced with eWh S/S Co/Co fowl.

I have 6 Light Sussex chicks in the brooder. They are about a week old. This strain can be feather sexed and this method says at 3 days old, they are all pullets. From a show strain, they are that lovely correct Light Sussex yellow. On several of the chicks, where the hackle will eventually be, the necks are a darker shade of gold. My question: Is this something I want to see or something to avoid. My birds do not have superhackles.
Thanks,
Karen in western PA, USA

Top
#109328 - 04/13/13 03:01 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: a3riverschick]
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands
Show strain and feather sexed are not compatible in my book... wink

Anyone please discuss this last question in the following topic:
http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=109325&gonew=1#UNREAD



Edited by Henk69 (04/13/13 03:46 AM)

Top
#110385 - 08/19/13 04:45 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Henk69]
Redcap Online   content
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 952
Loc: Germany
Light and Dark Head Columbian Chicks

Variations in the Phaeomelanin Intensity of the Head and
Neck Feathers of Gold Columbian Chicks,Somes 1972
http://documents.kippenjungle.nl/#post9
_________________________

Top
#110388 - 08/19/13 09:43 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Marvin]
KazJaps Offline
Classroom Professor

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2799
Loc: Australia
Thanks Redcap. An interesting study.
Here's the abstract
Variations in the Phaeomelanin Intensity of the Head and Neck Feathers of Gold Columbian Chicks.
R. G. Somes Jr.
Poult. Sci. May 1973 vol. 52 no. 3 831-835

The study is about the segregation of an unusual chick down phenotype, from the crosses of Rhode Island Reds, New Hampshire Reds and Buff Orpingtons. This "light headed" day-old phenotype is unusual in that they appear wheaten based with 2 different tones of phaeomelanin, ie very pale buff heads & necks yet dark reddish back. Test breeding indicated possibly a polygenic trait (multiple genes involved).

-----------------------
Originally Posted By: Marvin
can anybody confirm different e+ e alleles? so far I've seen the Red Jungle fowl and the Grey Jungle fowl, which also have a wildtype(chipmunk) chick down, but dont know if they are one and the same


R. Okimoto has noted that MC1R (E locus) DNA testing results of the 4 jungle fowl species, has determined that 3 species share the same MC1R sequence: Red Jungle fowl, Grey Jungle fowl, Ceylon Jungle fowl, yet the Green Jungle fowl allele has some differences. But the Green Jungle fowl allele doesn't have any of the mutations noted in domestic chickens (ie don't have substitutions as found in E, ER-Leghorn, ER-Fayoumi, eWh or eb alleles).

But keep in mind - the phenotype of a chick down is not dependent on a single locus, but is the result of all pigment/pattern influencing genes in a genotype.

Top
#111519 - 01/22/14 08:03 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Henk69]
SixHix Offline
New Egg

Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Southern California, USA
I am working on a project with golden cuckoo marans and salmon marans. I will have some chicks from a hatch that are Er/e+ or Er/Er. Is there any clues in their chick down or adult feathering as to who the Er/e+ ones are? It will save me a lot of time if there is sone way to tell. Is the Er completely dominant?
Thanks!
Heather

Top
#111523 - 01/23/14 10:31 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: SixHix]
Henk69 Offline
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 3208
Loc: Netherlands
It is fully dominant in chick down, but visible in adult feathers (remnant peppering)

Top
#111526 - 01/23/14 02:00 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Henk69]
SixHix Offline
New Egg

Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Southern California, USA
thank you for the info, Henk69!
That makes my day.

Top
#112748 - 05/12/14 11:06 AM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Chook-in-Eire]
Appyjumpindaze Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 285
Loc: MO
Found a bunch more chick down pics here: http://www.edelras.nl/belgians/chickens.htm

Top
#116621 - 05/16/17 07:04 PM Re: Chick down phenotypes and genotypes [Re: Chook-in-Eire]
a3riverschick Offline
Bantam

Registered: 11/23/12
Posts: 56
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Hi,
I need some help with chick down genetics. I need to know definitively the chick down colors for the following crosses. Sire for all crosses is Light Sussex being eWh/eWh Co/Co S/S.
Over a hen:

eb Dark Brown Leghorn
e+ Light Brown Leghorn
Ancona
Rhode Island Red
White Leghorn
Thanks so much for your help!!
Looking to discern if any of the chick downs above can be mistaken for pure Light Sussex.
Karen


Edited by a3riverschick (05/16/17 07:10 PM)

Top
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >


Moderator:  Admin @ The Coop, Henk69