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#92494 - 11/08/10 12:49 AM whence came lavender
Henk69 Offline
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On a german board someone asked how porcelain mille fleur booted bantams were created.
I know how I would create them, but how WERE they created?

Brumbaugh (1972) used porcelain millefleur as a source of the lavender gene.

So when did the lavender gene pop up and in which breed and pattern?

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#92496 - 11/08/10 03:28 AM Re: whence came lavender [Re: Henk69]
Wieslaw Offline
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According to Wikipedia:
The lavender gene was first discovered in the Porcelain variety of Belgian Bearded d'Uccle bantams in 1972, and verified in 1980 (Crawford 1990, p. 139-140). Porcelain colored d'Uccle bantams were around as early as early as 1909 (La Basse-Coeur du Nord 2008), though the Porcelain variety was not recognized by the APA until 1964 (belgianduccle.org). Whether from the Porcelain d'Uccle or other, unknown sources, the lavender color has been introduced to a number of new chicken breeds over the years, including the Polish and the Silkie.

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#92508 - 11/08/10 07:28 AM Re: whence came lavender [Re: Wieslaw]
Hen-Gen Offline
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Thats imformative. I'd always imagined the Lavender Araucana was the source.
(Though never convinced by the folklore of South American chickens, the Spanish Armada and ship wrecks off Orkney)
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#92509 - 11/08/10 08:00 AM Re: whence came lavender [Re: Hen-Gen]
Bushman Offline
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This is just further evidence that South American araucana stock had long since been corrupted by interbreeding with European chickens prior to their ever being exported to the U.S., Europe, or anywhere else. The O gene being dominant can be introduced to the gene pool any kind of chicken. So how could anyone determine conclusively what was or is an "original" blue egg chicken?
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#92516 - 11/08/10 08:18 PM Re: whence came lavender [Re: Bushman]
Redcap Offline
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The question is .. Is lavender a mutation of blue? In former times they were called "blue mille fleur" in Germany, so there was a believe the blue results in Porcelain. Could Porcelain be bred true in former times, or was it an incompletely dominant "blue"?
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#92518 - 11/08/10 10:50 PM Re: whence came lavender [Re: Redcap]
Sonoran Silkies Offline
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Blue mille fleur is not the same as porcelain. Blue does not dilute gold, and the hue of lavender diluted gold to is not really the same as that of gold diluted by Di or ig. I suppose you could use of of these in addition to blue to make something similar to porcelain, but I do not think it would look the same.

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#92521 - 11/09/10 12:45 AM Re: whence came lavender [Re: Redcap]
Henk69 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Redcap
The question is .. Is lavender a mutation of blue? In former times they were called "blue mille fleur" in Germany, so there was a believe the blue results in Porcelain. Could Porcelain be bred true in former times, or was it an incompletely dominant "blue"?


Lavender is not another allele of the Andalusian Blue gene/locus... wink

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#92529 - 11/09/10 08:12 AM Re: whence came lavender [Re: Henk69]
Redcap Offline
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But maybe a mutation/polymorphism? Of what? Of melanophilin on Chromosome 7?
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#92534 - 11/09/10 11:05 AM Re: whence came lavender [Re: Redcap]
Henk69 Offline
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I don't recall that the Blue gene is pinpointed to anything.

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#92536 - 11/09/10 05:09 PM Re: whence came lavender [Re: Henk69]
KazJaps Offline
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I did tried to research the timeline /history of the Lavender gene many years back, but didn't get very far, & had problems deciphering the different variety names in Europe (eg, 'porcelain' can have the meaning of 'millefleur' colour/pattern, 'self blue' can mean lavender, etc).

From a previous post:

Quote:
Lavenders were sometimes called Reynold’s Blue in Europe, after Dr E. Reynold, Switzerland. Dr Reynold determined the following:
  • the Lavender trait is different to Blue (Bl)
  • it is recessive,
  • it dilutes both black/gold &
  • the Porcelaine variety has the gene.

He suggested the trait to be given a name other than “Blue”, so as to avoid confusion with Andalusian Blue (he didn’t suggest Reynold’s Blue, lol).

The above information is from an article reprinted from the American Bantam Association 1940 yearbook. A final word from Dr Reynold:
"It has been well known for a long time".


From memory, the Belgian d'Uccle breed was developed around the turn of the 20th century (early 1900's?), ie not a very old breed. Maybe lavender was in d'Anvers (the source of lav in Belgian Bearded Bantams)?

I was chasing the line of inquiry that maybe the Blue Belgian Game had the lavender gene (from memory, described as 'self blue' in phenotype), but couldn't determine from text if this was due to the Bl - blue gene without lacing genotype (ie no Pg/Ml in genotype?).

Hen-Gen, from memory, I recall reading an article of how the Lavender Araucana was developed in the UK (ie outcrossed -lav introduced to Araucana), but can't find the article at the moment (thought it was at the Araucana Poultry Club of Great Britain website, but couldn't find it). Lavender Araucana bantams were developed in Australia by crossing Araucana with Lavender d'Anvers.

I did try emailing Dr Hans Schipper (a poultry historian) years ago, but at the time he didn't know offhand the circa of when the Lavender mutation appeared in history. I did look at the poultry history sections of various books, but couldn't determine from these when lav arrived.

So, of little help wink

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