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#94204 - 01/28/11 08:50 AM Question for Kazjaps on lavender vs blue
Sonoran Silkies Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 344
Loc: Arizona
In http://www.edelras.nl/belgians/colour.htm#lavblue you refer to the inner and outer feather shafts, and specifically mention the tail. Do you mean top & bottom of the feathers or something else? And does this work on wing feathers as well as tail feathers?

On another forum, I just saw it mentioned using wing feathers with darker shafts on top, lighter underneath as the test of lavender vs blue. Opposite of what I interpret as top vs bottom, and on wings, not tail. The bird, however looks lavender.

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#94210 - 01/29/11 12:16 AM Re: Question for Kazjaps on lavender vs blue [Re: Sonoran Silkies]
KazJaps Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2148
Loc: Australia
Here's the lav feather scans:


I don't know the technical terms, but what I mean for "outer view" of the feather is the external surface (ie where the sun does shine smile ). Yes, the darker iridescent lavender shade is mostly seen in the main tail & wing flight feathers (inner view, especially along the feather shaft). The pale feather shafts should be everywhere on the external surface, although there may be a few darker shafts on the breast, etc (but not main feathers).

It also works some on the phaeomelanin feathers:
Inner view of lav/lav tail feathers (extreme eumelanin restriction):

The same pullet (pale feather shafts):

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It doesn't work on blue /lavender combination though. These have traits of both blue & lav. The eumelanin ground colour is usually a lavender shade, but the feather shafts are similar to Bl, ie darker shafts both external & inner views.
Eg, the following hen is lav/lav Bl/bl+ (lav Porcelaine with Bl/bl+ blue):

External view of lav/lav Bl/bl+ tail feathers:

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Inner view of lav/lav Bl/bl+ tail feathers:


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The following set of images, from top left to bottom right:

Top Left: Blue Buff Columbian (Blue only: Bl/bl+ Lav+/)
Top Right: Blue Lavender Buff Columbian (Bl/bl+ lav/lav)
Bottom Left: Porcelaine (lavender only: bl+/bl+ lav/lav)
Bottom Right: lavender feathers (lavender only: bl+/bl+ lav/lav).

The following hen is Blue only (Bl/bl+ Lav+/Lav+):

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#94212 - 01/29/11 12:54 AM Re: Question for Kazjaps on lavender vs blue [Re: KazJaps]
KazJaps Offline
Lord of the Fowl

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 2148
Loc: Australia
These lav/lav traits are also visible in young chicks, as soon as the wing flight feathers come through (eg usually within a week). The inner wing feathers are a darker iridescent shade, ie darker than the outer feathers. This is for both lav/lav phaeomelanin & eumelanin, ie can tell with both lavender & porcelaine chicks.

I didn't get to take photos of this, but took the following photos of a clutch of mixed blue-splash millefleur (Bl/Bl Lav+/lav) and cream mottled (Bl/Bl lav/lav) chicks (the parents Blue Splash Millefleur Bl/Bl Lav+/lav & Cream Mottled Bl/Bl lav/lav).


I was trying to see ways to identify between Blue Splash (Bl/Bl Lav+) and Blue Splash lavender (Bl/Bl lav/lav). One way is the faces - deeper buff-gold for splash only, but there can be variation in ground colour with Millefleurs (especially with Bl), hence making it difficult at times to tell which were lav diluted.

Anyway, from above clutch....
Outer view of wing - young chick:

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Inner view of wing - young chick:


The above chick is a bit young to know if lav/lav, as all these have Blue splash - Bl/Bl, therefore diluting eumelanin wing primaries to white. Not enough of the secondaries were showing (ie phaeomelanin), plus harder again to tell if lav/lav, as the darker iridescence isn't as strong on phaeomelanin when both blue & lav/lav present.

But this is another method I used with young chicks to ID lav/lav, by looking at both phaeomelanin & eumelanin inner view wing feathers (ie expressed in porcelaine & lavender chicks, but not blue).

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#94214 - 01/29/11 04:19 AM Re: Question for Kazjaps on lavender vs blue [Re: KazJaps]
Sigi Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1150
Loc: Holland
This is very clear!! Thank you!

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#94238 - 01/30/11 06:29 PM Re: Question for Kazjaps on lavender vs blue [Re: Sigi]
Sonoran Silkies Offline
Flock Leader

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 344
Loc: Arizona
Yes, huge THANKS!

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