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#95331 - 03/23/11 02:40 PM Re: Turquoise Blue and Yellow Earlobe Genetics ??? [Re: sarimanok]
Wieslaw Online   content
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3379
Loc: Denmark
Here you can see a hen with a white earlobe made of purines. The same white purines in a thin layer on the face look blue.



Here is a cock with a white earlobe



Now we look at the other side of the earlobe. It is blue(thin layer)



Here is a pullet with light yellow ear lobe:



Now as adult. Pay attention to violet and bluish spots at the edge



Here is a hen with a thick white earlobe. She had intense yellow earlobes as a chick.



Now we look behind the earlobe. Bluish.



Here you have a pullet with a light blue earlobe. Her earlobe is very thin.



While we are at the purines: in some old threads there are some opinions, that there is a correlation between the size of the earlobe and the amount of 'white' on the faces. I can't confirm this. I have hens with big earlobes and clean faces, and small earlobes with white faces. So no direct dependency with me.

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#95335 - 03/23/11 04:25 PM Re: Turquoise Blue and Yellow Earlobe Genetics ??? [Re: Manok]
Sigi Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1150
Loc: Holland
@ Manon's last pic. Yes half a beard and single comb, not a half pea. You can read my CSI-report (Comb Shape Investigation)on chickencolours, or in Dutch on tuinvee.nl. The english version has more text because text is shorter so I could add the Brahma/wattle issue, need to translate it into Dutch and add it.

I looked numerous photos and took some more last weekend.
Single combs are normal in R/R birds (WITH wattles and no dewlap)in both bearded and non-bearded.
The half-bearded without pea (walnut) have considerable more wattle than the half-bearded with pea (only a piece of flesh).

Sometimes its difficult to tell whether the small wattles are due to half beard or half pea. But both are around here and when you 'learn by heart' how they look, its not too difficult to identify the comb genes. The answer lies in the breast feathers (Wieslaw noticed this, its mentioned in the books as well) and the rear of the comb. A walnut (pea) is rounded, a rose is square as if its chopped off.

Manok, do you have pics of the parents of the two birds you posted? Esp. the father?

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#95336 - 03/23/11 04:27 PM Re: Turquoise Blue and Yellow Earlobe Genetics ??? [Re: Sigi]
Sigi Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1150
Loc: Holland
@ Wieslaw, what do you think about the Spanish whiteface breed?

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#95338 - 03/24/11 12:00 AM Re: Turquoise Blue and Yellow Earlobe Genetics ??? [Re: Sigi]
Manok Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 638
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Sigi
Manok, do you have pics of the parents of the two birds you posted? Esp. the father?

This is the best I can come up with. They were made long time ago, with a 1 megapixel camera from quite a distance:

Original rooster:



Original hen:



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#95347 - 03/24/11 06:01 PM Re: Turquoise Blue and Yellow Earlobe Genetics ??? [Re: Manok]
sarimanok Offline
Feather

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 30
Loc: Philippines
Originally Posted By: Manok
My "own" breed is going to have yellow legs and white ears. So I've run indeed into the sad discovery that yellow skinned/legged chickens will get a bit yellowish ears, instead of white.

I did a (quick and definitely not complete) search among a lot of the well-known chicken breeds, and found only Ancona's and Leghorns to have white ears and yellow legs. (Actually, they've managed to get the ears very white. Some production leghorns still have yellowish ears though.)

Further all yellow skinned breed do not have white ears as a standard and vice versa. Clearly people have run into this problem before. Not good for me, but I'll stick with the bit yellow ears.

This rare breed shows well how yellowish ears look like:
http://eng.agraria.org/chicken/biondapiemontese.htm


Since you mentioned about developing a breed, i too would like to develop one. The reason for this post on turquoise blue and
yellow earlobes is to determine if i could breed for either of these two earlobe colors as one of the distinct markers for my breed.

To differentiate my long tail fowl breed from the Phoenix, Yokohama and other long tail fowls.

Thanks for the link to the Bionda Piemontese. The yellow earlobes really look nice to me. I thought it was a breed whose standard earlobe
color is yellow. But the standard requires white earlobes. Is there a breed of chicken where the standard earlobe color is yellow?
If there is none, then this yellow color has not yet been selected for and I think very rich yellow earlobes would be possible.

I will be breeding for big rounded earlobes as well. Both rich yellow and turquoise blue color on big round earlobes would be nice, i imagine.
Except for the Silkie, it is surprising that no other breeds of chicken were developed to have blue earlobes. And for the yellow
earlobes, it seems nobody was interested in developing more intense yellow color.


Philippine Long Tail Fowl-Sarimanok Breed Development Project http://mboard.pcarrd.dost.gov.ph/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=98638#p98638

Originally Posted By: Manok

I've mixed bred a Silkie with a bantam, and did get both blue ears and white. From the 4 offspring, 3 had blue ears, 1 white.





I do think that for decent blue ears you will always need Fm. Perhaps "gypsy face" would also do the trick.


Good to know that when outcrossed, the blue expressed. For darker blue earlobes, yes with Fm, the increased melanin pigmentation
helps absorb the longer wavelengths of light allowing for more pure blue color/wavelength. The Fm though makes the comb and wattles dark,
not bright red. If the blue trait is polygenic, then maybe better blues, than the light one, in non Fibro melanotic fowls can be developed.
It won't be as dark as in Fm though i suppose. But as can be seen in your pic above, even in Fm it does not hold that the earlobes
will always be blue. Fm can have predominantly white earlobes. Thanks Manok for sharing about your Silkie cross.


Edited by sarimanok (03/25/11 05:10 PM)

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#95348 - 03/24/11 06:28 PM Re: Turquoise Blue and Yellow Earlobe Genetics ??? [Re: Wieslaw]
sarimanok Offline
Feather

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 30
Loc: Philippines
Originally Posted By: Wieslaw
Here you can see a hen with a white earlobe made of purines. The same white purines in a thin layer on the face look blue...

.... I have hens with big earlobes and clean faces, and small earlobes with white faces. So no direct dependency with me.


Thanks for mentioning about the purines Wieslaw. Did some searching in the net. Purines reflect white structural color so when
they are very dense in the earlobes, the color will be very white; "washing out" the blue color even if it is present (blue can be absent).
Fortunately, white earlobes is a polygenic trait. Selective breeding for less white and more blue could be done.

An example of white light ("all" wavelengths of light reflected) washing out blue structural color in a bird:

Significance of a basal melanin layer to production of non-iridescent structural plumage color: evidence from an amelanotic Steller's jay
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/209/7/1245


Edited by sarimanok (03/24/11 06:36 PM)

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#95351 - 03/24/11 10:47 PM Re: Turquoise Blue and Yellow Earlobe Genetics ??? [Re: sarimanok]
Manok Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 638
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: sarimanok
[quote=Manok]Philippine Long Tail Fowl-Sarimanok Breed Development Project http://mboard.pcarrd.dost.gov.ph/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=98638#p98638


If you're aiming at "food security", I think it'll be much more important that the chicken will be non-broody, than that it is a prolific layer.

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#95355 - 03/25/11 04:18 AM Re: Turquoise Blue and Yellow Earlobe Genetics ??? [Re: Manok]
Sigi Offline
Ruler of the Roost

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1150
Loc: Holland
Thank you Manon, what kind of bird was the single combed bantam with smooth feathers? Since one kid is smooth the other silkied.

Great rose comb the father and mother, no pea....

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#95358 - 03/25/11 09:25 AM Re: Turquoise Blue and Yellow Earlobe Genetics ??? [Re: Sigi]
Manok Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 638
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Sigi
Thank you Manok, what kind of bird was the single combed bantam with smooth feathers?

The first 3 on the last page were offspring of the Silkie rooster and a single combed bantam hen. The silkie feathered one at the bottom was an offspring of mum and dad Silkie.

(So, the hen/pullet that you said was P/p+ got to be a R/r+... smile )

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#95360 - 03/25/11 03:17 PM Re: Turquoise Blue and Yellow Earlobe Genetics ??? [Re: Manok]
sarimanok Offline
Feather

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 30
Loc: Philippines
Originally Posted By: Manok
Originally Posted By: sarimanok
[quote=Manok]Philippine Long Tail Fowl-Sarimanok Breed Development Project http://mboard.pcarrd.dost.gov.ph/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=98638#p98638


If you're aiming at "food security", I think it'll be much more important that the chicken will be non-broody, than that it is a prolific layer.


Searched the net for broodiness and found
Quote:
Why Did My Chickens Stop Laying? http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/html/pnw/pnw565/

Broodiness

Broodiness is the natural tendency for a hen to sit on her eggs to hatch chicks. Most hens eventually go broody, some breeds more often than others, although some breeds rarely, if ever, go broody. (Cochins and Silkies are champions at going broody; broodiness is rare in Leghorns.) When a hen becomes broody, hormonal changes result in the cessation of lay.

The stimulus for broodiness normally is a nest full of eggs; however, some hens will go broody without this stimulus. To reduce broodiness, collect eggs daily from nests and hiding places. If a hen shows a desire to stay on the nest for extended periods, remove her from access to the nest for several days. After a period of time, the broody behavior will cease and she will return to egg production.


Thanks, the information will really help with selection...!

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