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#30997 - 01/08/09 02:44 PM Re: autosomal red in action?
Henk69 Offline
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Whites and junglefowl. That's like idiopathic, unknown origin.

What else came out (RIR * white)?

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#30998 - 01/09/09 01:04 AM Re: autosomal red in action?
Henk69 Offline
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Hi, clarification of the origins:

Quote:
wclawrence:
This particular hybrid is a really cool bird in my book.
The Daddy is my (Mixed Longtail) x Ceylon Junglefowl.
This is him.


His mamma is out of a red phoenix hen and an ohiki x green junglefowl hybrid rooster.
She is the one on the left. She really looks like a silver phoenix except for all the lacing.


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#30999 - 01/09/09 04:46 AM Re: autosomal red in action?
Choc Offline
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Registered: 03/10/06
Posts: 489
Loc: England
I only hatched 3 (bad fertility) and the hen was like NHR in tone and markings

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#31000 - 01/10/09 08:27 AM Re: autosomal red in action?
Anonymous
Unregistered


This is an interesting question.
Because the bird in the first picture has Ceylon Junglefowl and Green Junglefowl genetics, normal genetic assumptions may not apply. We do not know hows genes like Mahogany or Autosomal
Red are expressed in these species.
A similar situation may exist with seramas as well. It is my understanding that this breed has genetic roots in the local Thai Junglefowl subspecies. This is a different subspecies than than Gallus gallus gallus subspecies that most domestic genetics are based on. Do different Red Junglefowl express genes differently? I think it is possible.

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#31001 - 01/16/09 03:47 AM Re: autosomal red in action?
Henk69 Offline
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From "Backyard Poultry":
Indian game * single laced wyandotte?




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#31002 - 01/16/09 04:49 AM Re: autosomal red in action?
RuffEnuff Offline
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LOL henk69,

i thought these birds fitted into this conversation too.

i was wandering if perhaps AR might have a pied covering of the bird and seeing the mahogany will only expressin in the presence of AR on silver perhaps that is to do with the strange distribution of the pattern. is it random or is there pattern?

i see on the breast where there is no definite black lace (but a white one) then mahogany is expressed. where there is a black lace then it is silver.

if i remember on the cocopop there is a strong demarkation as well. in this pattern sigi says ther is no lacing gene.

where there is mahogany, silver and lacing the colours seem to segregate. perhaps it is the absence of lacing in your first ckl photo that gives the bird a white spangle on the breast.

the birds above do not have wyndotte in them. they are wheaten only (eWh/eWh). the silver was brought into the indian game line via a wheaten lavender pekin ckl 5 years before. the slow feathering gene K is there too (one dose). i suppose Co is there too in one dose but the original pekin didn't seem to show it but being lavender everything gets fuzzy.

i am waiting for pekins to mature with similar colours. there is a wheaten chicken ckl that has silver hackles and a mahogany and silver breast. as he matures he is turning into a silver wheaten rooster (should i say a black silver....opposite to a black red) but with mahogany across the shoulders.

i have many of these colour combinations coming through in the pekin crosses with these, some with hen feather and some with and without Ml. i think this colour behaviour is fascinating.

the first thing we should do is observe what we see before we make interpretations. i see lacing, silver, mahodany and spangles like mottles. i also see it in a patchwork expression.

lust my thoughts.

k

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#31003 - 01/16/09 06:49 AM Re: autosomal red in action?
Henk69 Offline
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The mottles could be leftovers of silver.

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#31004 - 01/19/09 04:59 AM Re: autosomal red in action?
Sigi Offline
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Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1150
Loc: Holland
Quote:
Originally posted by pocopoyo:
A similar situation may exist with seramas as well. It is my understanding that this breed has genetic roots in the local Thai Junglefowl subspecies.

This is a different subspecies than than Gallus gallus gallus subspecies that most domestic genetics are based on. Do different Red Junglefowl express genes differently? I think it is possible. [/QB]
There are strange diluters in Seramas but I think they will be explained in time.
In the seramas I did not find anything different from other chickens, except for those diluters. I think I have to think into another direction, so I don't know what I see at the moment. Test breeding doesn't work because I don't know where to test for, lol

I think there is not much difference amongst sub species and the actions of genes like Mh etc.
Colour genes cross species borders or in other words, similar genes are present in different species, take for example recessive chocolate.
When we first saw and mentioned it in chickens the waterfowl people said owwhh nothing special at all, we've it in the muscovies, same for the turkeys.
Same for lavender, blue, etc.

Last year was found out Sonnerath was the one who gave yellow skin to gallus gallus domesticus.
So how about our chook? It can't be called gallus gallus domesticus anymore.

That makes me think the MC1R gene in mammals can be also responsible for the paint silkies although paint or spotted isn't 'present' in birds.
Why not?

It is true that some colour genes give different pheno effects on different species although same stuff but this is mostly in combination with other genes.
Why don't we have chickens in parakeet colours, all pigments are similar. I stopped thinking longer about this, thats a study on its own.

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#96325 - 05/11/11 06:18 PM Re: autosomal red in action? [Re: Henk69]
Poultch Offline
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Registered: 01/25/10
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Originally Posted By: Henk69
Hi,

What do you think about this cockerel?

Quote:
wclawrence: Junglefowl Hybrid


I have something similar, I've taken the posting below from the autosomal red stricky thread

Originally Posted By: Poultch

A friend sent a photo of a young cockeral to me which hatched wheaton, but was buff coloured in his hatch down. He is the result of a S/s+ eWh/eWh cockeral over a S/-, hen (salmon faverolles).
His sire is also Co/? Db/? Bl/bl+ plus pheomelanin enhancers most likely in het form and I have wondered if there is Pg aswell.
The fella below is S/S .. no? Is there a vague link to this fella and the cocopop pheno?


Originally Posted By: Wieslaw
Poultch, in my opinion he has Db. What role is Pg supposed to play here? Even if it is present in the genotype, there is no eumelanin here to organize. I have never read about Pg working on pheomelanin(unless there is something I've missed)



I just wanted to state that Pg could be in there, whether relevant or not. Although, I know Pg is in my buff leghorns.
I just wondered if anyone else thought this fella (and brothers) were interesting, and that whether or not this an example of Mahogony's subtle columbian type restriction working here as well.

here are some of his brothers below:




Edited by Poultch (05/11/11 06:24 PM)

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#96328 - 05/12/11 03:04 AM Re: autosomal red in action? [Re: Poultch]
Wieslaw Offline
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Poultch, he is interesting. There is a thread , where somebody posted a Wyandotte cock in a very similar colour( the breast was all red). As far as I recall, the thread ended without conclusion what the genotype was.

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