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#96299 - 05/09/11 04:06 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red' [Re: Henk69]
Jenks Offline
Coop Cleaner

Registered: 05/13/10
Posts: 234
Loc: USA
Ah! Thanks!

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#96302 - 05/09/11 07:20 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red' [Re: Jenks]
Karen T. Offline
Chicken

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 125
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Jenks
OK - in the Sigi/Hancox basics book, on page 18 and 19, it shows a silver breasted female duckwing....(the creations of exhibition lines)

It looks to attribute the salmon breast to Ar+ seperate from e+ ?

if not, what makes the silver breast in an e+/e+?


=======================
Hi jenks,
I just had a silver breasted silver female duckwing show up here. The silver breast shows up when autosomal red is not present. It appears when only the e+ and S/s- are present, thus e+/e+ S/s- ar/ar. Wildtype in the truest sense (e+/e+ s+/s+) is the "bottom line" as far as color is concerned. There are no hypostatic genes in it. No mutations. No extra genes. Wildtype in its truest sense (e+/e+ s+/s+) is the base upon which other genes and modifers act to make all the other colors in poultry. Ar+ is a color which changes other colors. Wildtype is naturally salmon-breasted. It is part of what it is. I was warned by those with much more knowledge than myself that figuring in Ar* in breeding wildtype would be a mistake. Everything isn't yet known about Ar+. Thus, I was told figuring it in a breeding program as if it were a known and analyzed gene would be a mistake. After seeing how it sets itself in a breeding program and the mess it can make in wildtype with 2 doses, I believe it. I was warned that once AR+ sets itself in a breeding program, it is hard to winnow out. Sadly, now I believe that too and have had to go out to another strain to get non-Ar+ wildtype Marans to fix the problem.
Best Regards,
Karen

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#96303 - 05/09/11 07:35 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red' [Re: Karen T.]
Karen T. Offline
Chicken

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 125
Loc: Pennsylvania
Jenks,
s+/s+ and s+/s- are not the same as Ar+/Ar+; Ar+/ar; or ar/ar.
Best,
Karen

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#96317 - 05/10/11 07:05 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red' [Re: Blackdotte]
Poultch Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 657
Loc: New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Blackdotte
Combining Ar+ ,Mh & S on a eWh background gives the Salmon (Mahogany Silver Wheaten) pattern of the Faverolle. It would be interesting to see the effect of the Pg Ml Co group on it.
David


A friend sent a photo of a young cockeral to me which hatched wheaton, but was buff coloured in his hatch down. He is the result of a S/s+ eWh/eWh cockeral over a S/-, hen (salmon faverolles).
His sire is also Co/? Db/? Bl/bl+ plus pheomelanin enhancers most likely in het form and I have wondered if there is Pg aswell.
The fella below is S/S .. no? Is there a vague link to this fella and the cocopop pheno?


Edited by Poultch (05/10/11 07:10 PM)

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#96323 - 05/11/11 05:11 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red' [Re: Poultch]
Wieslaw Online   content
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3379
Loc: Denmark
Poultch, in my opinion he has Db. What role is Pg supposed to play here? Even if it is present in the genotype, there is no eumelanin here to organize. I have never read about Pg working on pheomelanin(unless there is something I've missed)

As far as the red-free breast on e+/e+ females is concerned, there has never been presented any picture on this forum, and consequently it does not exist. There was one attempt some years ago, but the pullet looked like an outcross to wheaton, and no further examination was carried out(if I recall correctly- correct me if I'm wrong). Whitish breast on silver e+ can be a result of Db. According to Ron Okimoto one dose of Db does so little change on e+ s+ females, that it can pass unnoticed to an untrained eye.

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#96324 - 05/11/11 05:58 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red' [Re: Wieslaw]
Poultch Offline
Coop Keeper

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 657
Loc: New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Wieslaw
Poultch, in my opinion he has Db. What role is Pg supposed to play here? Even if it is present in the genotype, there is no eumelanin here to organize. I have never read about Pg working on pheomelanin(unless there is something I've missed)



Thanks Wieslaw, I will put this fella in another thread(link below), so he doesn't take away from Kaern's question
http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96325&#Post96325


Edited by Poultch (05/11/11 06:20 PM)

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#97207 - 06/23/11 04:28 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red' [Re: Poultch]
nzchicke Offline
Bantam

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 64
Loc: South Island NZ
What is the difference between autosomal red and Mh? how can you tell if a bird had one or the other or both?

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#97211 - 06/23/11 06:46 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red' [Re: Sigi]
Wieslaw Online   content
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3379
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Sigi
Autosomal means on both sexes the same


Not exactly. Autosomal means that the genes are situated on chromosomes other than Z and W. Autosomal traits can be easily affected by sex hormones. There are numerous examples on this, beginning with e-locus.

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#97229 - 06/24/11 05:51 PM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red' [Re: Wieslaw]
Wieslaw Online   content
Moderator
Classroom Professor

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3379
Loc: Denmark
The ultimate red on silver :




taken from this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G913Fx-8kJg&feature=related

Here is a really good one(and gorgeous!):







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#98218 - 08/09/11 12:07 AM Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red' [Re: Chook-in-Eire]
LAseramas Offline
Feather

Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 26
Loc: California
Hi I am new to the forum But I am a member of the SCNA seramas forum and breeding for the cocoapop color I have a few pair from captain cocoapop line from jerry and grady taylor and hope one day I can have them breed true ..

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