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Ah! Thanks!

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Hi jenks,
I just had a silver breasted silver female duckwing show up here. The silver breast shows up when autosomal red is not present. It appears when only the e+ and S/s- are present, thus e+/e+ S/s- ar/ar. Wildtype in the truest sense (e+/e+ s+/s+) is the "bottom line" as far as color is concerned. There are no hypostatic genes in it. No mutations. No extra genes. Wildtype in its truest sense (e+/e+ s+/s+) is the base upon which other genes and modifers act to make all the other colors in poultry. Ar+ is a color which changes other colors. Wildtype is naturally salmon-breasted. It is part of what it is. I was warned by those with much more knowledge than myself that figuring in Ar* in breeding wildtype would be a mistake. Everything isn't yet known about Ar+. Thus, I was told figuring it in a breeding program as if it were a known and analyzed gene would be a mistake. After seeing how it sets itself in a breeding program and the mess it can make in wildtype with 2 doses, I believe it. I was warned that once AR+ sets itself in a breeding program, it is hard to winnow out. Sadly, now I believe that too and have had to go out to another strain to get non-Ar+ wildtype Marans to fix the problem.
Best Regards,
Karen

Jenks,
s+/s+ and s+/s- are not the same as Ar+/Ar+; Ar+/ar; or ar/ar.
Best,
Karen

A friend sent a photo of a young cockeral to me which hatched wheaton, but was buff coloured in his hatch down. He is the result of a S/s+ ewh/ewh cockeral over a S/-, hen (salmon faverolles).
His sire is also Co/? Db/? Bl/bl+ plus pheomelanin enhancers most likely in het form and I have wondered if there is Pg aswell.
The fella below is S/S .. no? Is there a vague link to this fella and the cocopop pheno?

Poultch, in my opinion he has Db. What role is Pg supposed to play here? Even if it is present in the genotype, there is no eumelanin here to organize. I have never read about Pg working on pheomelanin(unless there is something I've missed)

As far as the red-free breast on e+/e+ females is concerned, there has never been presented any picture on this forum, and consequently it does not exist. There was one attempt some years ago, but the pullet looked like an outcross to wheaton, and no further examination was carried out(if I recall correctly- correct me if I'm wrong). Whitish breast on silver e+ can be a result of Db. According to Ron Okimoto one dose of Db does so little change on e+ s+ females, that it can pass unnoticed to an untrained eye.

Thanks Wieslaw, I will put this fella in another thread(link below), so he doesn't take away from Kaern's question
http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96325&#Post96325

What is the difference between autosomal red and Mh? how can you tell if a bird had one or the other or both?

Not exactly. Autosomal means that the genes are situated on chromosomes other than Z and W. Autosomal traits can be easily affected by sex hormones. There are numerous examples on this, beginning with e-locus.

The ultimate red on silver :




taken from this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G913Fx-8kJg&feature=related

Here is a really good one(and gorgeous!):

Hi I am new to the forum But I am a member of the SCNA seramas forum and breeding for the cocoapop color I have a few pair from captain cocoapop line from jerry and grady taylor and hope one day I can have them breed true ..