Ok, this isn't quite true, but it got your attention, right? my question is this:

I've got a pair of Black sex link hens that seem extremely aggressive to me. I house them in a 4 by 5 ft box of steel mesh with a loose board making the roof (hey, it's a student budget thing). Anyway, I regularly have to bat them back down when I open up the top to put in food/water. Once inside, they attempt to peck the living snot out of me. They regularly devour their own eggs and almost killed a younger Rhode Island Red I was dumb enough to put in there (I'm a newbie). Do any of you veterans have any advice?

Steve Williams

do you let your hens free to roam? they sound crabby, for starters. But I also have one rooster, a Lakenvelder, gorgeous, but oh so mean. I have raised him and his brother, along with probably 30 other chickens, male and female, and he continues to attack me, as if he didn't know who provided the food everyday!! Most would say get rid of him, but in my case, he is so aggressive, I keep him since he is a great protector of "the flock"

Yes, I agree with anonymous. You might want to give them some more room. If you and several of your buddies were cramed into a small room, I would venture to say that several months down the road everyone would be clubing it out. And anyone new that got shoved into your little room, well, you get the picture. Isn't life grand. A lesson on diplomacy right in your own back yard.

We concur with Mark & Brenda, and anonymous. Let them BE FREE! Sounds like they can handle themselves in the big wide world. Do you have room (and friendly neighbours with nice dogs) to let them free-range? This requires a bit of tolerance re: landscaping, etc., but your ladies will be so much happier, and they won't run away. And you'll still have an arm! Let us know how you do. P.S. always (from chickhood) handle your chickens with gentleness (unless your rooster is scratching the living daylights out of your 4-year-old's face), and usually (no guarantees) that's what you'll get in return.

ok...so the consensus is I let them out of the cage. Man, I am a real rookie at this stuff and I live in suburbia with neighbor cats. I suppose I could try to catch them inside the cage and let them out with a string tied to one of their legs. It sounds kind of barbaric but I don't think I'll be able to catch them if I really let them free. Grabbing a hold of them in the cage will be crazy, too. Any ideas?Also, I can't let them out 24/7; it would have to be for an hour or so at a time at most.
Biggest problem right now: I think they're eatin all their eggs including shells. Could be field rats in the ivy, but would they eat the shell, too? If it's the chickens, what should I do? If I can't get a single egg out of five chickens, these guys are history. Help!

How can I say, that you may be keeping your hens in a "prison" situation--they may be hungry, thirsty and crowded, wind and rain may blow through the wire netting. In time, they may actually harm each other. While chickens do not need a lot of space, they do need to move around, scratch in straw, shavings or other "bedding" They need nest boxes, roosts with dropping boards underneath to catch the poop. They also need food before them all the time (lay crumbles for laying hens) and clean water. Some grain once a day (scratch feed) is very nice to make them happy. Crowded into the cage you described, they would spill the food, eat the eggs, and be frantically hungry at times and most of all, need to move around without climbing over each other. This is why they are so frantic when you open their cage to feed them. And why they are so desperate to get out of their prison. Very sorry to write this, if I am wrong I do apologize, but from the little you describe, it sounds like this is what is wrong. Suggest you find them a new home--or eat them! CJR

Bart: I am in agreement with the previous suggestions. These chickens are really in a sad situation it appears. It sounds to me, and I hope I am not being overly critical, that these hens are not getting enough to eat or drink. I wonder if they are eating their eggs or are they just not laying. It is tough for a hen to produce eggs when there is not enough food. It sounds like they are so starved that when they see a person approaching they try to peck them to get the food that is being presented to them. The facilities they are provided with is really inadequate for lack of space and shelter. Perhaps you could trade someone who has the facilities for these hens for some bantams that could possibly survive in this very limited space. You also could provide them with feed and water containers that would not overturn easily and would hold a good quantity. I am of the opinion that you need to do something with these hens. Again, I am not trying to find fault but you did ask we veterans for our advise. Please keep us informed.......Red Tail Chicken Hawk........

Steve,

All the advice has been very good. If you would like to keep raising chickens at this time I would suggest this to you. Build them a proper coop/home to sleep in. There are books and web sights that show how to do it. Please notice that I said sleep in not live in. It should be well elivated off the ground and provided the perches for roosting at night, shelter from the elimates and so forth as CJR mentioned to you and a door and ramp for them to get in and out of it. If you open the door for them to come out to free range they will go back inside on there own at sundown to roost and you can close them in for security. Cats are not a problem with full grown chickens that can and will defend themselves. The cats are in more danger than the chickens. Chicks are a different story. You can also make a large inclosed run from chicken wire and wood for them to run around in if free ranging makes you to worried about them. In fact if your handy with a little amgination, you can make the coop and run movable by having wheels that can be raised or lowered to move the whole thing to different spots in your yard. Dosile breeds need a min. of 4 square feet for each bird. This is not a docile lazy breed as you can see. Sex links are very active birds and need a lot of space to run around in. As others have suggested, I don't think that they are laying any eggs. Birds that are stressed do not lay eggs, and they do require a proper diet to lay eggs. I feel that if for any reason, space, money, whatever, if you can't give them a proper home at this time it is best not to have any birds until you can. Don't feel bad, you are not alone in this, lots of people get chickens and pets without first learning about them and what there needs are, at least your brave enough to admit it and ask for help. That's a good thing. Good luck.

Chicken wire is cheap! Scrounge some wood
stakes and string the wire around and overhead.
It's easy to cut, too, so you can fit a top easily.
If you make a run for them and feed them daily,
you'll be rewarded with eggs. Do you have a paper shredder? Your friends might be willing to save it
for you, if you don't. A cardboard box with some shredded paper is a good nest and can be
tossed when filthy. They'll all use the same one. Almost all kitchen garbage goes to my chickens. They leave what they don't want and seem to know what's not good for them. Them even eat the egg
shells which puts minerals back into their
system. In general, anything you would
compost with can be eaten by chickens.
You can lay various size branches on the
ground and they'll roost on them. You can lay a
cardboard piece over one corner of the run
for shelter. Easy to toss and replace.

ok, interesting responses. a lot of them critical, but I'm glad you took the time respond. Perhaps I should clarify the coops I'm using. Both coops have about 9-10 square feet; that's almost 5 feet per chicken. Location: southern California, so cold and wind is not an issue here. They have dirt floors to scratch in. Both have large containers of water that are filled at all times. The food dish is adequate, too, and there often is food mash left over when I refill it in the morning. You guys may still be right about letting them out, I just take issue with the folks that imply my arrangment is "prison-like" or that I shouldn't be raising chickens. C'mon, go a little easier on the rookie, eh?
If anyone wants to continue some positive dialogue and coaching (as some of you have above), please continue respond!

surprised and a little hurt,

steve williams

Bart: I agree we may have been harsh but with the limited information that you gave, we were quick to compare the situation to our own climate, etc. When you explain further that you are in a mild climate, things are indeed different. Perhaps the variety of chicken you have is overly agressive or you might settle for one that stands confinement better. Good luck with this venture.....Red Tail Chicken Hawk.....

Thanks, Mr. Red for the encouraging tone.

Moving forward, I have some new questions. I just visited a very informative poultry page (http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/294 and they say that one needs only 3-4 sq feet per layer. You guys are pretty opinionated...what's your opinion on this? Is this pretty skimpy, perhaps an commercial standard?

Like Jan Cook (loved your post!), I also feed my layers almost anything left over from the kitchen. Is there anything I should avoid giving them? (I avoid giving them meat. Just to creepy!).

Last question: how often should I be gathering the eggs? The above page said several times a day--impossible for a full-time graduate student like me. Advise...

thanks!

steve williams

Well, I must confess that my personal experience is limited with chickens. I myself come here for advice. It has proven to be an excelent source of info. Animal people have always proven to be friendly and helpful to me. We generally enjoy sharing our learned trials and temptations. The coherence of this group is the mutual admiration of one of God's creatures, poultry. They, the chickens and yes even some of the people, can be extremly enjoyable and down right funny to watch if they themselves are allowed an enviroment that is stress free. Yes, when I read your first discription I saw your steel mesh box with our cold wet winter wind. But my response was to the size of the box. I noticed that you lift the lid to give them food and water. In my own experince observing our chickens, they seem to enjoy exercising a bit. They also jostle for the highest roost. A queen of the hill type thing I guess. Anyway, I have done a few experiments and when they have plenty of room, a dry roost, and a nesting box with dry hay they just seem to smile. Sorry that you were offended. My family and I also raise other animals and we constantly find ourselves educating our clientel on the needs of farm animals. Not that we mind, but not everyone knows that goats like to climb or that chickens like to dig and have a dirt bath. So, 4 feet per adult chicken has been good for us. Of course the roost is suspended from the ceiling and secured to the wall so it does not get in the way when they are scratching about. But if we go out to check on them at night, it is wise to be careful of falling bombs. The nesting boxs also are high (2 1/2 to 3 feet from ground) so they can walk below them. In other words they literally have at least 4 feet per. Second, I remember my grandmother trying to save money by feeding left overs from the garden. The size of her eggs went down. She threw in squash, watermelon, you name from her garden it went to the chickens. When she returned to feeding laying mash, the egg size returned to normal. Also an old farmer friend told me a while back, "You get out what you put in. If you give um good feed they'll give ya good eggs". I was not going to argue. Third, some lay in the morning, some later. Once you figure out the routine the rest is just good eating. The whole idea is to have fun with it.

Hey, Steve, I'm glad you have the desire to learn how best to care for your poultry. Check out this info provided by poultry specialists who work for the various states' cooperative extension services:

http://home.earthlink.net/~manzanovalph/cyberlibrary.html

I have found it to be a goldmine of information for the beginner, as well as those of us more experienced. Much luck to ya.

Steve,

I am very sorry about the misunderstanding. I do not want you to stop raising chickens. I was trying to sugjest that you concider adding more space for your breed or concider a calmer breed that would do well with the facilities you now have. It is a shame that there are some people that after having had a negative experance have decided to stop raising birds and I am trying to help you to avoid that kind of situation. I would like you to enjoy your birds as much as I do mine. Meny of the well known egg laying breeds are nervous/flighty birds. The less space they have the more nervous and aggressive they become. There are meny breeds that would be much calmer and gentler in the pens that you are now using and would be much more enjoyable for you to raise. The Black Australorps would do very well and are good egg layers. Other breed that lay quite well and are calmer birds would be the Orpingtons, Rocks, and Wyandottes. Breeds that do not lay as well but are extremly calm and gentle are the Brahmas, Cochins, and Langshan. I have raised Black Sex Links and all of these other breeds with the exception of the Wyandottes and Langshans. I gave up on the Sex links because my own facilties were not adaquate for them but they are doing very well free ranging on some friends land. I have had very good luck with these other breeds and can easily pick them up and pet them without being chewed up because of their calmer nature. I also enjoy the Production Reds and New Hampshire Reds that I have but they also like a little more room. Raising chickens can be a lot of fun for you. I wish you the very best of luck.

I think I noticed that somewhere along the line you mentioned that you were wondering how much space the average commercial bird has. Well regardless if you wanted to know or not here it is. Both the average commercial layer and the average commercial meat chicken have no more then 1 sq. ft. their entire life! I suggest that you try to entertain the birds by offering all of your green table scraps (no not green jello) or give them some live bugs to chase. If that doesn't work you might just want to sell a few of your birds that you find to be the most aggressive. Or you could just get rid of all of them and start over fresh with a smaller or more docile breed of birds.
Hope I Helpped. Please keep us informde on how it's going.

question: I just got hip to the need for laying boxes recently so I made a couple of boxes and filled them with straw. Will my chickens eventually stop laying on the ground or is this a habit that is ingrained?

Sometimes it helps to put a fake egg (I use a polished rock in the shape of an egg) in the box. Chickens like to lay where other chickens have already layed. I think it's a security reason. It also won't hurt to raise the boxes above the ground about perch height and keep them in a darker seculded area. You might want to spread some scratch in the boxes. It may take a few days but they should eventually get the idea and start laying in the boxes.
P.S. don't forget to remove the eggs as often as possible!
Tell us how it turns out.

I live close to Boston. I don't have any city freinds that are currenly raising critters like chickens!!
I was wondering what would be a hardy breed, and something easy for a first timer? Would I be better off to start with and egg, chicks, or a adult hen? I am only interested in having 2-3 birds, for eggs only.
i appreciate any advise. My husband is totally agianst this, but, "I" think it will be fun!!! Hey, he's got two English Mastiffs, and they are anything but fun!!!
Thanks for any input!!
Karen

Hi! I'm a newbie to a list like this plus new to chickens also, so bear with me! I have read everything I can put my hands on but am still confused about a few things...I feel like a new mother with newborns coming!We have 27 chicks coming on Mon...assorted layer breeds..including 3 roosters...I like to hear them crow...not too sure how the neighbors will feel. I already have homes lined up for them should they not get along.. My question is, I keep reading that new chicks should have 1 sq ft! I'm planning to keep them in a box 31x37 for the first few weeks in a spare bedroom using two light bulbs. Is this going to be big enough? For how long? I'm planning on using a deep layer of newspapers then covering that in a day or two with a piece of burlap or papertowels so their legs won't slide around.

We are planning a coop 10x12 with a larger run outside, plus they will be able to roam loose when we are home..does this sound large enough? My husband wants to put doors opposite each other thinking it will help in cleaning it out..I'm afraid I'm losing alot of roosting space...Any advice on anything would be greatly appreaciated!

Also, I was told that when they were older that they would like the garden scraps, NOT to feed meat or eggs, but lobster shells and seaweed would be great in combination to their regular chicken feed. We live near the ocean so those things are readily available...any opinions? Can't find any info on that..I also read this morning about CHICKEN SNAKES!!!! I'm trusting that in Maine we don't have any..please tell me so!

Thanks Sharon

Sharon, in the future, you might want to use the button on the bottom of the page "Start a new conversation" when your topic doesn't match the one you're reading at the moment. It'll get you more and better responses. I just happened upon your post here.

For the first 4 weeks, 1/2 sq. ft. per chick is fine, then from 4-8 weeks it should be 1 sq ft. per chick. So, depending on the weather in your area, you might be able to then move them into a bigger box or add another box which you can set up in your new coop once they outgrow your small box in the bedroom. Most breeds are pretty well feathered by 6 wks old, so you might even be able to let them out into the coop then, but remember to keep providing a heat lamp until they are 8 wks old.

The paper towels will work, and are actually recommended, for the first couple of weeks regardless of whatever else you use as litter. But after that, they'll start tearing it up and eating it and the newspaper, too. They'll just scratch that burlap back and go at it. My advice would be to either use coarse pine shavings or ground corn cobs as litter or build a short wire-covered frame using 1/2 in. hardware cloth to sit over the litter/newspaper to keep the chicks above it.

A 10X12 coop will be plenty big enough. 1 human-sized door is enough for the coop, plus a small chicken-sized one to go into the run (which can be shut at night to keep out varmints that find their way into the run.) You'd need another wire door to allow you access to the run, as well. The best designs I've seen have the roosts, waterers and feeders placed on a wired (top and front) 2 ft. tall platform against the northern wall. With this design, 75% of the bird's droppings will fall in the area underneath. The wire will prevent the bird's from picking and scratching in the droppings (which could lead to disease). You would then have a couple of hinged doors on the outside that can be lifted to allow you access to the droppings pit. You just take a hoe and rake out the droppings without even stepping into the coop. Compost and use as fertilizer.

Up in Maine, you'll probably have ALOT more trouble with other kinds of varmints rather than snakes. Make sure you build a sturdy coop and run to keep them out.

I recommend Gail Damerow's "A Guide to Raising Chickens" very highly. I ordered my copy via barnesandnoble.com, but it's also available at amazon.com. It even has some decent plans for a similar efficient coop like I mentioned. Much luck to you and enjoy those chickies!

Thanks for the advice Tigger! We will certainly incorporate these ideas into the coop for sure..I especially like the idea of the hinged door access to make the cleaning a little easier.

I'm hoping we won't have any varmint visitors but I guess that's not likely the way it'll be. We have all the usual...possum, raccoon and coyotes! I'll be ready for anything except snakes or maybe a bear! Either of those and the chickens and I are goners for sure!

Glad you found my post..thanks for the info on looking for the "new conversation" button..haven't found it yet tho..will look around some more...This is new to me..Thanks again! I'm off to Amazon to order that book!

I have an Ameraucana Rooster that was hand raised with
other chicks and fed and watered by the same person
everyday (me) and has plenty of space, food, and
company and he is vicious!! Just the look in his eyes
scares me! His chicks are so beautifully colored that I
keep him. I raise them in the city by the grace of my
neighbors' patience (and they like eggs.) I would like
an email penpal with similar interests--anyone have
time to write?

Hello,

Once in awhile, no matter what you do, you can get very aggressive chickens. Since everyone on my Farm MUST get along with each other, the aggressive ones get eaten. They taste just as good as any other chicken. :O)

Hello,

I had a ruff start to.... Got a couple of Maran`s , nicely bred birds, but the meaness little buggers in the world. They went and killed one of my pet turkey`s,turkey wasn`t doing any thing to them, by the way. They even went after my mini sheep.... Well, hen stew and rooster noodle soup, tasted very good.
Anyway, I have gone on to have,

Standard ....
Light Brahama`s
Partridge rocks (like these)
One New Hampshire, I think would be aggressive but for my big old hens keeping her in line.
I have ordered more Partridge rocks and a new one for me Salmon Faverolles.


Bantams...
Polish,,, they can`t see were they are going let alone harm any one. they are funny....
White Cochins , very gentle
Brahama`s... but to noisy for my tastes
Mille Fleurs,,, very freindly and gentle

I have found , for me anyway, Ameracana`s, and old English game birds and marans to aggressive for my place.

Please don`t give up and do keep trying. You will find a breed out there that YOU like. :O)

Hello ... I think this is on topic ...

I recently started keeping chickens - 2 Dominiques and 2 Wyandottes - all four are hens. Everything has been pretty peaceful until now. I've had the birds since September and all came in as young adults and while I haven't seen a LOT of eggs, I figured the waning daylight was the biggest culprit and that it would be better come spring.

Anyhow, one of the Wyandottes is terrorizing one of the Dominiques. She is aggressive with the other two birds, but downright mean with poor Lucy. No blood - yet - but I am concerned that Lucy is being kept away from food and water...

They have a coop that is 4 x 8 with two roost and a good sized nesting area ... and there is a ramp that lets them out into an outside area - fenced off to keep the patio from being covered in chicken poop - they know we come out of the kitchen with food and had been hanging out by the back door messing the whole patio up like crazy, so we enclosed a run for them that makes a big U around the coop ... easily 60+ square feet.

Anyhow ... I am concerned that Louise is going to hurt Lucy.Should I back off and let them establish "pecking order" or should I butt in?

I have a barred plymouth rock rooster and he is the meanest thing I have ever seen. He attacks me when I feed the chickens and when I pick up eggs. There are seven hens in the pin with him and no other roosters. How can I calm him down some? I have even clipped his spurs and that didn't bother him. Help what am I suppose to do with him?

Anonymous, The only real help, is finding him a new home or for the freezer. It is the nature of roosters, and while some people may have suggestions, I think in your situation with other roosters in the flock, your only solution is to get rid of him! You do not need more than one rooster with your small number of hens, anyway, assuming you want fertile eggs to hatch. If anyone, especially children should go in your pen, there could be serious damage--even lawsuit--not worth it. And do not be surprised, if when he is gone, that another takes his place as Ruler of the Poultry! Chickens are domesticated, but so are horses and cattle, and stallions and bulls usually are not trustworthy! They are just larger. You may hear from others who claim their roosters are gentle and friendly, and theirs indeed, may be, but yours is NOT--so you must do what is necessary! CJR

Dear, Bart


there is not much you can do someone has made a man fighter of them and they will more than likely never stop. one idea wear gloves to pick them up. then start peting and be gentle. so as to show how you intend to treat them.

To Karen Meko in Boston, I also am new at this and do not live in a rural area. Have always wanted chickens and thought someday would live on a farm, but this is not happening. So I decided to have a few in my backyard. I hope by choosing the Brahmas {quiet and gentle} that this will work. Although I have no words of wisdom for you, being new myself, would love to know of your trials and tribulations in the city.Jeanne.
Any advice from anyone out there? I understand from reading about the Brahmas they are not great on egg production, but are there egglayers that are calm and gentle?

What a wonderful conversation!

I have Buff Orpingtons, Ameraucans and some white hybrids called a California cross as well as a pair of Khaki Campbell ducks. They all get on well together and non have shown any agressive tendancies. They do have lots of space but I also 'entertain' them by constantly moving the food and water containers around, by putting oddities in the run such as a brightly coloured bucket or a cardboard box, even a football will give them something different to look at and investigate. Think of a dog tied to its run by a length of chain night and day ( I think we have all seen a few of those). It spends all its time barking and tends to be aggressive when approached. Because its bored! Chickens may be simple minded but they do need stimulation which is not difficult to achieve.

I have found with increasing frequency that when chicks are hand raised on their own or with one or two siblings they can turn out to have strange behaviour problems like attacking my gumboots when I walk into the run to feed them or roosters being down right vicious.

Chickens need enough room to be content, but it doesnt have to cost a ton. what i used as my first setup was a 4' chicken wire pen that was 4'x 4'. there was one rhodie rooster and two rhodie hens. they need a tarp to cover it up, and a used doghouse to nest in with some straw in it. my birds are perfectly content with that. as long as they have shelter to hide in and sunshine, they will remain happy :)
the whole pen cost me around 30 bucks. most of that was the wire!

I have had to deal with free range chickens for two years now. They still get grumpy all the time. More space will help, but a great solution I've found is to walk right up to them and pick them up.( not too close to your face mind) usually they'll settle down and stop trying to rip your leg off. They tend to throw tantrums. Just like a bratty child they need disipline and above all LOVE. Pet them, Hold them, (I've found they really like their heads stroked) teach them there is nothing to be afraid of. Instead of breaking the bank, (belive me I know) show them you are patient enough to help them. They'll love you for your respect. If all else fails it may be they're trying to tell you they don'tlike something about their habitat. Would you like to live there if you were a Chicken. ( feed them more than just grain, try some corn chips or flakes, My Chickens love them. vegetables or greens are important too) If nothing seems to be working (don't expect instant results) Then letting them go free range is the only answer left. Not only will they be happy, but free range eggs are 100% better than the kind that come from battery cages or cooped up birds.

well I have two chickens ( one is an aracanda) their names are alice and april. I just got a rooster last week. I feed them scratch and canned corn or peas. they're in a 8ft by 10ft enclosure. I've had them since they were just chicks. I can hold and pet them. they dont seem to want to leave or peck at me. Guess i feed them too well. I think if you show them that you care for them and spend time w/them they will trust you. You need trust w/wild animals. I also have 3 mallard ducks that trust me indefinately. trust is the factor.

DavidandConnie, I hope you will get some commercial feed for your birds, as they will not thrive indefinetly on the feed you describe alone--or maybe that is just your "treat food". Do they have some oystershell and grit, (because chickens do not have teeth to chew their grain.)? Aren't they wonderful pets? Will you have some chicks one day?? Lovely to have trusting birds, as they become so responsive. CJR

just a note on aggressive roosters. i have about 30 chickens some are free range and others are in pens. i even have two large roosters penned together, a gorgeous partridge rock and a huge light brahma. they are the best of buds and when i let them out to run they stick together. My problem is my rhode island red rooster, robert. he is absolutely obnoxious. he killed my turken "wrinkle neck" put his brothers eye out and will fight the penned roosters through the chicken wire. he will attack human, but only when our backs are turned. i can pick him up and he is fine. i am trying to find a home for him, but i am afraid he is going to end up being a pot pie!!!!!