Hi, everyone,

Can anyone please help with my sick chick? It's a 3-1/2 week old black australorp, obtained as a day-old mail ordered by the local feed store. It's the only sick chick, has been slowly worsening the last 4 days - lying down, drowsing, nearly all the time now - it doesn't reach up excitedly like it used to and the 3 other chicks still do when I reach into the box to change food, water, litter, or just to pet them. I have a red lamp for the 2-ft-cube box keeping a temperature range around 80F,so they can move cooler or warmer.

This one is now noticeably smaller than the others, having not kept up with growth the past few days. Eyes and nose are clear, feathers and down look a little 'ruffed' around the neck. Tail is droopy, head is droopy often, neck is never extended to stand tall. Doesn't stand up straight, seems to wobble a little bit and is either weak or slightly off balance, squats down quickly after a few steps.

I've kept it separate for 2 days and today noticed it has a liquid light yellow poop (and a big un-ladylike emission of gas :-) at the same time). It may have had this before but I could have not noticed it in the pine shavings. Not eating or drinking much, but still doing both a little.

Any advice would be appreciated! Do you think she will survive? What can I do to treat her? If she does make it, would it be safe to put her back with the other chickens, they will be in an outdoor pen and coop arrangement soon.

Thanks!

Its always hard to know for sure. It may be cocci. I'm always afraid of giving bad advice. I looked the symtems up in "The Chicken Health Handbook" by Gail Damerow. This is what I found. Coccidia affecting chickens: Species- E.maxima, Invades: middle portion of small intestine, Symptoms:(usually chicks 3-6 weeks old)slow growth, pale skin, rough feathers, yellow,gray or brown diarrhea, loss of appetite, weight loss, high mortality. Are you using medicated starter ration? If not you might try a coccistat in the water. I've used Ren-O Sol myself. I hate to advise the use of meds. I'm not a Vet. So take this for what its worth. Hopefully you get more replys to help you. Best wishes to the little one!
Bill

Bill,

Thanks for your advice, I know what you mean about it being hard to tell for sure - a vet would probably do some culture or other microscopic tests to be sure but it doesn't seem practical to do that with chickens.

I am not using medicated starter so I will look into getting a coccistat as you suggest. Did you give it to all the chickens or just the sick one? The sick chick seems to be holding steady - not sicker but not better. It seems to chirp contentedly, like the other chickens, so maybe it will hold on while I'm trying to find help :-).

If anyone else had had experience with this or any of the other similar diseases, further comment is always welcome.

I have never had Coccidia but from Bill's quote out of the book, it sure sounds like your issue. All of your chicks have been exposed so it would be important to get them all a medicated feed or just the medication in their water, ASAP. I don't know how well it works to treat a bird that is already ill, but it sure could save your others!

Good luck and keep us posted!

Susie

If your box is just two cubic feet (square feet?), then there is not enough room. The heat may be too much for them if they want to get away from it and can't, or if it's cooler than they like. Being cramped in a small space means they are making poop where they sit, where they stand, and where they eat and drink. With a box this small, bedding needs to be changed every day. Are you using shavings? I urge you to go to a larger run for them right away, and get some cocci medication into your sick chick right away. A vet will have something you could put in the water and get into her system right away. Some vitamins and electrolytes wouldn't hurt. I also like a little apple cider vinegar in the water at a ratio of about two table spoons to a gallon of water. Good luck.

Lily

Yes I did give it to all of them. I lost 2 before I knew what was happening. Dr. Smith makes a good point about space. I didn't follow up on the cause. Coccidiosis (cocci) is caused by a build up of one or more species of protozoa in the intestines. They reproduce in the intestines and there eggs or oocyst are released in the chickens droppings. Each generation adds millions more eggs to the droppings than the one before. The chicken picks them up by picking dirty litter or drinking infected water. If the exposure is minor they build immunity. If its too much too fast they get sick. Glad to hear the little one is holding his own. Good luck!

Bill

Hi, Bill, Susie, Bruce, and others,
Thanks for all the ongoing advice! You folks are very kind and wonderful.
The girls share a 2 ft by 2 ft by 2 ft box(8 cubic feet, I read that online somewhere). Is that still too small? Of course it's just the 3 healthy ones in the dorm now. The sick one is by herself. The little ones are still under the heat lamp at 3-1/2 weeks and aren't very good at roosting yet, so I'm afraid to put them outside except for short field trips under supervision. It still gets down to 50 and damp at night. Windy, too.
I'd been using a one to two inch deep bed of pine shavings and changing every couple of days, but I'm a little confused from reading as to whether the shavings should be dry, damp, or wet! (maybe I'm misunderstanding, but one source discussed moistening the shavings, one mentioned protozoa proliferate in moist heat, and one said they grow in dry environments). I'll change daily. I've since switched to just rumpled giant sheets of kraft paper, so that the little feet have some texture to grip on to, but the poop will wick in and dry so that the birds can't pick it up. One of the buff orpingtons likes to pick up a big ol' piece o' poop, and then it's great fun for everyone to chase her around squawking like mad - like she's got some terrific food prize. Oddly enough, *she's* doing fine despite the fecal contact.
My temperature sensor shows there's at least a 10 degree temperature range where they can wander for comfort, more if they go under the shady spot or climb up on the food dish (one girl sits right on the water dispenser - I'm using washed out salsa containers with a hole cut into the lid to minimize walking through but they manage to get shavings in the water anyway!) They don't generally act too hot or too cold. Maybe they were getting high oocyte exposure through wet litter in the water before I could change it?
Hmm, is the vinegar to acidify the digestive tract? I saw somewhere about young birds being more susceptible to gut infections because of having less acid.
I'm sorry to keep pestering you all with questions, can anyone recommend a particular brand of vitamins or electrolytes? Bruse is there a brand you favor? Or specifically which vitamins or electrolytes might be needed? Gatorade? Pedialyte? (There's a little bit of salt in the food I give them < 0.5% I think, as well as vits A + D supplement (it's supplemented for people food) - I'm using a mix of cracked corn, rolled oats, soymeal, cracked wheat, powdered milk, and food grade diatomaceous earth - roughly 25% protein, depending on how often the chickens are begging for a corn snack. they still don't like fresh fruit or vegetables though I offer greens and clean rinds) I supplement the DE for them to dust bathe in also, but they *love* to eat it.
Our original thought had been to raise these critters without too much medication or antibiotics. It seems the Ren-o Sal is an arsenical compound, which worries me a little bit as our water goes straight into the ground via the septic system, I would feel guilty adding that to the environment, but of course I would also feel bad if the chicken died! And then maybe chickens need arsenic in the diet? (rodents fed a 100% arsenic free lab diet grow stunted - but whether this applies to chickens is, ummm, not clear ) Any thoughts, opinions, conjectures, or commentary appreciated here - I'm of mixed mind. Maybe Amprol would be an alternative - does anyone know what that is? I'm considering only treating the sick bird anyhow, since the others are just fine and perky - and it seems a low level exposure builds natural immunity.
And finally, does anyone think this could be blackhead rather than cocci?
The sick- chicky is still the same, kind of wobbly but walks around, eats, drinks, poops plenty and a bit runny, and still likes to be picked up and petted. She's isolated now, and of course that means there'll be trouble introducing her back to the 'flock' later. I can't thank you folks enough for your kind advice and concern to a complete newbie. I feel *very* lucky to have stumbled into this community, and to have such nice birds.
On a lighter note, if it weren't that a stomach flu was going around other people in my office now, I'd be asking you folks whether people could catch this, too ;-)
- Lily

Lily,

Dry litter, definitely! I like pine shavings because they stay dry. At this point, you don't have to worry about them getting a grip with their feet. That is of issue right in the beginning, like the first couple of days. At 3 weeks, they would be fine on newspaper or just about any other litter choice you make. But definitely dry is best!

As to the vitamins, any feed store you have access to probably carries a powdered "Vitamins and Electrolytes" that you add to water for poultry. A bag will last you a long time. I believe I put like 1/3 teaspoon to a gallon so that bag goes forever. I wouldn't worry about a brand name. Just get the one made for poultry. I don't know what brand mine is because I dumped it into a ziploc bag for long-term storage.

It's difficult for me to comment on your feeding choices because I never mix my own feed like that. I buy commercial chick starter -- sometimes medicated, sometimes not, depending on my situation. I understand not wanting the medication in them if at all possible but I really think you are talking very small trace amounts here so I wouldn't worry about contaminating your ground water. In fact, the chicken poop your little ones will eventually generate is probably a bigger issue where that is concerned! Truly. Still, it is a personal choice and I respect that. But the little guy with diarrhea might not make it without the meds and all of your chicks have been exposed so just keep that in mind. The sick one would definitely benefit from the vitamins & electrolytes if nothing else. About the feed, I am wondering if they are getting enough protein from your mix? Protein is very important at this stage since they are growing feathers like mad and just growing in general so quickly. Anybody else have an idea about her feed mix?

Not sure about DE use at this age. They don't really need it for external parasites right now probably. I don't know if there are ill effects or not but I know there are some DE users here so maybe they can comment with their own experiences.

I have chicks right now that are about 2 weeks old. They are in a plastic swimming pool in my living room. Their heat, at the hottest spot is now at 85º. There are 15 chicks and they have a 3' round pool. They will be moved outside by the end of the week but still have a heat lamp and our nights are warmer than yours. All they have in their brooder right now is a 1 gallon waterer, a chick feeder and a little "toy" I made for them to exercise and learn to roost and about 3" of pine shavings. The toy is just some scrap lumber glued together with a glue gun, two boards on the bottom, two going the other direction on top of that and two more on top that are running the same direction as the bottom ones. They love getting up to the top level and they are learning to roost and sleep that way already. They have feathered wings, tails are sprouting now and feathers coming out on their shoulders. Just thought I'd share what is, in my world, typical.

Sorry, wish I had more answers for you! It does sound like the "sick" one is not too bad off right now. Hopefully he'll pull through. Good luck and let us know how things go!

Susie

Oh, sorry! I just re-read your message and saw that you calculated your protein percentage at 25%. So, nevermind about that comment/question! :-) And for now, I would not try to give the sick one any greens or veggies/fruits. A little extra seed would be okay if he likes it. Might help curb the diarrhea a little bit.

Susie

The bedding must be as dry as possible at all times. Get rid of the paper and go to shavings. When they get bigger, you can use straw, but shavings absorb better and stay dry without matting down. As Susie says, the brand on the vitamins isn't important. Different companies make their own variety and it all depends on who supplies your feed store or mill. A regular plastic or metal poultry fountain would probably serve them better than what you are using. I would think they will tend to tip your water cups over as they get bigger.
If your feed is made up of the items you mention just mixed together instead of ground, then the birds are probably picking out what they like and not getting the average protein level. Chances are, the protein intake is considerably lower than 25%. Is there a mill nearby that will grind this mix for you so you can feed it as mash? This factor may also be influencing your sick chick.

Lily

You may have pick up on info regarding build up litter management. It doesn,t pertain to brooding young chicks and I dont use it in my coop so I wont try to explain it in detail, but the methed does require some moisture in the litter to support good bugs that desroy the bad bugs. That may be the source of your confusion on litter. I understand wanting to keep the medications to a minimum. I dont belive in shotgun medicine either. It looks like the others answered most of your other questions and some of mine. I always learn something when everyone comes together on a problem.

Bill

Hi everyone,
I wanted to update you on the further saga of
the poor chicken. After my last email, I noticed that
the chicken poops were normal again. But the chicken
was still acting droopy, clumsy, weak, and it's head seemed more "twisted" as well as it never extending it's neck. I started it on the antibiotic food at that time. And was adding a little sugar and electrolytes to it's water. I also was giving it
drops of water to wet it's beak - it would seem to swallow that, but never drink water by itself.
Over the last days, the neck has gotten more twisty seeming, with it's head turned almost all the way around, and a little off to the side - so that when it is squatting down, it seems to be toppled over (and yes, it also topples over!). So could this be something else other than the cocci? Over the last few hours it's gotten weaker, and it's eyes are closed most of the time. I'm keeping it warm and giving it water, but I think it may be more merciful that this chicken not suffer too much more.

The other three chickens are doing fine. They loved their daily outing to the yard (even the sick chicken liked it yesterday).

Thanks you kindly for all your help. I'll post more updates, but I'm afraid it will be sad news.

The neck twisted around sounds more like Marek's, but Damerow lists arizonosis as a possibility, although it is rare. She says infectious bursal disease causes incoordination, and that one is common. Perhaps this is a possibility, and coccidiosis could have been combined with it early on. Sorry we can't help any more than this. Good luck.

Hello, friends,
Thank you all for your kindness and concern and generous help with my chick. I'm sad to report that she passed away last night. It was probably for the best, considering she had become quite debilitated seeming. Sigh. The other three are still healthy and vigorous, though I imagine they sometimes call out for their missing flockmate.
I learned a lot about chick care from all of you, so all your advice will go on to help my other chicks be healhy.
-Lily

Hi Lily,

I'm sorry. Yes, it was probably for the best, but still I'm sorry you had to go through it as I know it can be tough to watch one struggle and not know how things will turn out. You did your very best!

Susie

Sorry for your loss.

Bill