if a breed exists in such few numbers that it is at risk of being lost,how would you (all) go about increasing the population ? Would an otcross, to the nearest similar breed allow for the fastest increase in numbers so that something would be left to work with. then cross back to parent stock and spread the offspring among other like minded breeders. each would see the ideal end result slightly differently, (segregating ?)slightly different genes. meanwhil thru selection, the contaminating traits could be eliminated. by shifting stock from breeder to breeder, numbers could increase without becoming too close.
If it were I who had the rare breed.... I would
I like Info's suggestions. I would add that dividing them into two families, breeding the two families as long as you can seperately, selecting the hardiest offspring, the most active males, and of course, the closest to type, but at this critical point, type would not be a big factor. Not as big as survival. When needed, then outcross to the other family.
Japman, Because I now have some birds that produce a high proportion of exhibition individuals, both sexes, I have kept several strong "lines" that I 'braid". So while this is line breeding, there are several distinct lines. I also have a distantly related cock in the same variety, waiting in the wings, with some hens, also distantly related birds that I can bring in--just one or two birds at a time, to one or any of the lines, if I recognize a weakness. I should not have to (in my lifetime) bring in any outside birds. But, of course, I still have to carefully select the breeding birds retained--records of where the birds that are sold are located, so I can assist others in projecting the same characteristics that are being very successful. It is a great activity--much more satisfying than video games--and hopefully with some long lasting outcomes! (and I bred my Welsh Cobs the same way) CJR
You are saying the same thing I am, aren't you?
cjr, i bred some nice welsh mt. ponies in the past. the only stallion to best mine was Gayfields BCider, his sire.( a B section). i was set to purchase several ponies of liseter breeding at the dispersal of that herd but things did not worg out. i had always wanted cobs, or at least C cobs but went to the haflinger. i think the british have the right idea in that they dont interbreed the 4 types. i sure wish i could see your cobs.
cjr,it is possible you have seen b cider if you showed on the west coast as he spent some time in calif. before going back to ohio.
Japman has a good stategy. If possible you want more than 5 families, but you can use the strongest families to rescue the weakest ones if they are needed and you can still maintain a closed line. Each family would be a separate population and each family would be large enough so that you shouldn't have to mate anything closer than cousins together. I'm assuming that you would be selecting for breed characteristics and viability.
Japman, Yes, same plan:
By Infomaniac on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 03:33 pm:
inbreed them until I began to see inbreeding
effects ( low hatch rate, high post natal mortaility et
cetera). Then, I would select against the
inbreeding effects as best I could. If that didn't
help me any, then and only then would I consider
outcrossing.
I'm sure others here will have different strategies.
By Japman117201 on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 05:26 pm:
Al Khamsa Arabian horses have been bred this way for hundreds of years. AL Khamsa means 5 fingers.
(5 families)
By Cjeanr on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 06:50 pm:
By Japman117201 on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 07:59 pm:
Japman
By Robbpa on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 08:00 pm:
By Robbpa on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 08:03 pm:
By Rokimoto on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 09:22 pm:
This would take cooperation between several breeders. It is unlikely that anyone breeder would have the resources to do a decent job of breed conservation. The larger the gene pool the better.
Whether you inbreed or not you should always select for viability in a small closed population. If you wait until the majority of your matings are showing inbreeding depression before you start your selection you will have to increase your population size and increase the severity of your selection in order to try and pull the population out of it's decline.
By Cjeanr on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 09:44 pm:
Robbpa, I know bcider. We had Mnt Ponies (Bowdler and Derwin) 40 years ago, when our girls were young, then Bs, then SCOLE Ds, but had a couple of Smoke Tree Cs in between. (I was on the Board for 3 years) We do not breed the D stallion (now gelded, but lots of frozen semen) except to D or C mares. And the C mare must be of Cob Type (some that are AxD crosses are not). I am an oldie, but my daughter Events (yes, on Cobs and also TB). We do not show at Welsh Shows, but have produced many times CHs in hand, and all performance disciplines! Some young stock is just getting out--mainly CA, OR and WA. Driving Cobs in WI. 4 top 10 Ds last year, Stallion, Gelding, Colt, mare. But old people can do bantams--that is my activity now (but have 3 dear old Cob mares to care for--just one foal next year.) Sorry about the Welsh, but the bantams fit in between! CJR