Genetic archives


The Classroom @ The Coop: Poultry Breeding/Genetics: Genetic archives
By
Japman117201 on Monday, December 31, 2001 - 07:29 pm:

I entered the genetics archive, but I didn't find what I was looking for. I say a post on here somewhere about the short comings with breeding a trio. Single malw gene pool. has anyone done a chart that shows the benefits of breeding from pairs?
I write a column for Poultry Press about Japanese Bantams, and I would like to see this situation developed.
Thanks for any help,
Japman


By Infomaniac on Monday, December 31, 2001 - 10:20 pm:

Japman, I don't know if I can contribute anything
intelligent to this topic or not... but, I would like to
understand the question more clearly.

When you say "breeding a trio" and "single male
gene pool" ... that makes me think that there is only
one male involved in the breeding project? Is that
what you intended the comment to suggest?

I've recently made a number of "flow charts" that
represent the breeding that we have been doing ...
and also those diagrams facilitate the evaluation of
the coefficient of inbreeding. I'm not sure if this is
the type of thing you're talking about.....


By Rokimoto on Monday, December 31, 2001 - 11:33 pm:

Infomaniacs charts may do you some good if you are worried about inbreeding.

If you are just worried about the best way to line breed for specific characters the common sense thing to do would be to mate in trios or more than two females if the male is the superior parent. The reason for this is that you don't have to worry about specific pedigrees because all the daughters are related to the superior parent and can be bred back to him with the same expected genetic consequences. If the female is the superior parent you should mate in pairs unless you can tell the eggs from the different hens apart from each other. With the female you need to know the female pedigree so that you can mate a superior son back to her.

The advantage to pair mating is that you know the pedigree of your chicks. The advantage of trio or quad mating is that you get more chicks from the superior male to select from. More chicks means that your selection pressure can be greater and your progress should be at a faster rate unless you aren't selecting for the right characters.


By Japman117201 on Tuesday, January 1, 2002 - 10:31 am:

When I say trio, I mean 1 male, two females, same variety, same breed. The 'old timers' that I learned from taught that if you were starting fresh with a new variety of a certain breed, you should start with two pairs instead of a trio, 1 male, 1 female, trying to get birds from the same established strain. I believe this to be true, but I would like it explained in terms that a layman,(like myself) can understand. Info, I would love to see your charts and anything else that others could offer. I believe this site is a great resource for all breeders and I would like to get more of this information out to the masses in the poultry world, so we didn't have genetic dummies,(like me).
I can't find it now, but I think it was under the discussion under inbeeding,( where I jumped into the fray).
Thanks for your help.


By Robbpa on Tuesday, January 1, 2002 - 12:45 pm:

japman, i think i remember that and have it copied.will dig it up and post here.


By Rokimoto on Tuesday, January 1, 2002 - 01:32 pm:

If you start from two pairs you produce progeny that are not sibs of each other. If you produce from a single trio all progeny are related to the male (they are all brothers and sisters). If you start out with two pair you not only decrease your initial inbreeding in the next generation, but you increase your potential genetic diversity by 25%.

It is common in the fancy to maintain a line with at least two separate breeding pens. If you mate the progeny from the different pens together you are assured that they are not sibs. Inbreeding is generally a bad thing, but it remains the best way to breed the traits that you want into your birds. The reason to mate relatively unrelated birds, but still related is that your selection progress can still be observable and you decrease the chance that inbreeding depression will run your line into extinction.

Inbreeding increases more rapidly for sib matings than for cousin matings. Eventually the two lines will produce cousins on a perpetual basis. This is an oversimplification but full sib matings increase the inbreeding by 25%, half sib matings by 12.5%, but first cousin matings increase inbreeding by 6.25%. The difference may not seem too great, but it is very substantial when you consider chance fixation rates. Fixation is just the chance that all birds have the same allele (are homozygous) inherited from some single ancestor. Infomaniac may have a simple explanation of why the fixation rates are so different, but the rate at which the fixation rates rise to equal the inbreeding rates is probably a couple orders of magnitude between an inbreeding rate of 6.25% and one of 25%. If the fixed allele is detrimental (bad for the bird) your line must now live with this disadvantage because you can't breed it out. Fixation means that there is no longer variation at that gene to select on. If too many of these detrimental alleles are fixed your line will die out. If you slow the rate of fixation you increase your chances of selecting against these detrimental alleles and maintaining you line.

CJR calls this braiding the lines. If you have three lines you can decrease inbreeding even more, but your genetic gains will be expected to be less for any trait that you are selecting for.

Line breeding, where you are crossing parent to offspring, is one of the fastest ways to inbreed, but also the fastest means to breed for the traits that you want to have in your birds. The disadvantage is that any bad genes that the superior parent has, become very common in your line and have a high probability of being fixed by chance. Line breeding relies on the chance fixation of the traits that you want in your birds, but it dies by the chance fixation of the recessive bad genes. This is why some breeders tell you not to line breed, it often results in good show birds for a few generations, but the line usually becomes reproductively weak and new blood has to be brought in that usually wipes out most of the gain by line breeding.

There is no doubt that line breeding is the most effective breeding technique to produce the birds that you want if you know what you are selecting for, so it may be best to maintain a braided line and branch off a few extra pens to experiment with line breeding.


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