The illustrations are an artist's conceptions dome mostly in the early 1980s. I guess I was a little surprised by that and somehow thought they would be actual photographs. I have read criticisms of the illustrations but I don't know enough about show poultry to comment on that.
By Robbpa on Wednesday, January 9, 2002 - 10:11 am:
I think even if one is not showing, ths standards can be helpful. Probably I wont be able to show, I cant drive, but my goal is to produce birds of high quality. even tho your gaol appears to be egg color, there must be a type standard that you strive for also. Five artists could probably paint birds, by reading the same standards, and no two would be clones. It is individual percepyion. It is a red horse,but it is a horse of a different color. Also i have noticed, not only in chickens, that color , type, etc., are very faddish. A popular judge, or a popular individual in the hobby, tends to set, or reset the goals. A good idea would be to have actual photos in the standard book. but then, whos bird, the current trend or the fad of 10 years ago.
I was thinking that too.... that "judging the standards" must be a little bit subjective. People who show poultry must have stories to tell about the different 'judging styles' of various judges... And then, the political component as you mentioned... I would bet my last dollar that well-known breeders are more likely to win than unknown breeders just because of the 'reputation effect' (i.e. politics). It would be interesting to show some birds twice ... once by a well known breeder and then a second time (same show, same judge) by a novice (unknown) and see if the birds would do as well the second time.
I suppose what I meant by type(in your case),would be a conformation that allows for egg production. Like, a dairy cow needs a certain amount of muscle quality and leg structure to maintain a 305 day average lactation of 90 pounds of milk. you would not want to stress a long narrow laying hen. Actually, the standards are nearly impossible to breed to. The pictures are SUPPOSED to look like the ideal, something to aim for. I remember when i was younger and saw the pictures why few birds at a show looked close to the picyure. It seems the one with near perfect feather color and pattern, have a crooked keel or pinched ear lobe or whatever. I do love color pictures of chickens but yes, they mostly look flat.
Info, you are now talking about my world. I show about three times a year. hav been doing it for about 25 years.
And so Jaapman, what are your opinions and comments on standards and judging to the breed standards,stc.
Japman... I freely admit that I don't know anything about show poultry. I will probably never know much about it because we (here on this farm) are pursuing different goals.... But, it is interesting to peek in your window now and then to see what is going on!
P.S. Our Araucana are from Terry Reeder's flock (and darned expensive culls he sells!!!!). I see that he is credited as a 'sponsor' of the Araucana paintings. I don't know what that means. I tried to talk to Terry once about the genetics of the Araucana Black Large Fowl, but didn't get anywhere with him. He did tell me that our Araucana sire, Prince, is the best bird for type that he has ever seen. That was nice to hear! even though Prince is tuftless.
P.S.S. The cockerel in this picture is bigger than both his parents. He is VERY wide and heavy. He is already 30% larger than the males (Pierre, for example) that hatched a month before him. This sweet cockerel (George Washington) is intimidated because he rarely gets out of his breeding pen and has no idea what is going on!
Info I'm not in any way critizing you for your goals. For about ten years I did not attend any shows and I continued to raise poultry. I don't do it to show, its my hobby and I would still enjoy it if there were no shows. To add a little to answer Roppa's question, it can be frustrating showing poultry. One judge focuses on one thing and another on another. I had my best hen at a show this year disqualified for stubs. When I brought her home it took me a magnifying glass to find the stub.
Posting pictures is easy... If you will look over to the left side at the bottom, you will see a menu item titled "Formatting". In there you will see instructions for posting pictures.
Infomaniac. Simple for you. I am not stupid, but I have never been successful! I must just enjoy your very good pictures!!! CJR
By Infomaniac on Wednesday, January 9, 2002 - 10:58 am:
We have a number of breeding projects, but none that are recognized breeds. Our Delawares, RIRs and Leghors we breed just to maintain the lines and we do select for color, vigor and so on, but we never have been interested much in cosmetics. We pay particular attention to egg production aspects in our layer line more than anything.... if we have a good layer, it doesn't much matter if she's ugly. Our other breeding projects (the black and red barred birds which may split into different families of greybars, faux-Marans, et cetera) I guess we really are paying the most attention to cosmetics ... at least in the color of the plumage. The blue egg project is primarily focused on the eggshell color.
I feel that the colors and patterns and some other details are not all that accurately reproduced in artistic renderings. THe paintings look really flat to me. The mottling is too perfectly spaced, lacing is exactly the same on every feather...it just looks flat to me. But, like I said, I don't know anything about show poultry. For breeding purposes, I believe the information in Crawford's book and other works is more valuable. But, the Standard is nice to have ... at least now I can look up types of poultry that people refer to. For example, Rokimoto mentiond that the Ameraucana beardmuff was the same color as the breast, and this is certainly the way the Ameraucanas are depicted in the APA book. It's also nice to be able to read about the breed specifications and see pictures of them.
By Robbpa on Wednesday, January 9, 2002 - 02:25 pm:
By Japman117201 on Wednesday, January 9, 2002 - 04:52 pm:
Japman
By Robbpa on Wednesday, January 9, 2002 - 05:07 pm:
By Infomaniac on Wednesday, January 9, 2002 - 05:21 pm:
By Infomaniac on Wednesday, January 9, 2002 - 05:27 pm:
The cockerel in this image is a son of Prince... Prince is the sire and a Leghorn pullet is his dam....
By Infomaniac on Wednesday, January 9, 2002 - 05:37 pm:
By Japman117201 on Wednesday, January 9, 2002 - 06:19 pm:
Shows do their best to keep the political side of things to a minimum. The judge does not know which bird belongs to who when he is judging. But judging is subjective. I don't own a standard and I don't pay much attention to breeds other than the two I raise so I know little about the Ameracana, except I remember when it was admitted to the Standard.
If you go back to Genesis, God gave us the responsibility and privilege of being stewards of the earth and everything in it, including poultry. Its called the Dominion Covenant. We all are just enjoying that privilege. You in one way and me in another. Info, how are you posting picures?
(Stick to your guns Josh.)
By Infomaniac on Wednesday, January 9, 2002 - 09:56 pm:
The picture needs to be on your computer. I have a digital camera and just download pics to my desktop then size them in my photo software and save them back to the desktop.
In your post you need to type backslash then the word "image" then curly brace { then a name for your picture then curly brace }. No spaces.
You will click preview and you will see a sign that says "your image here". Then when you click POST, you will be prompted for the image and you'll get a 'browse' button that lets you browse your computer for the file. Click on the filename then click OPEN then click UPLOAD.
It's pretty easy. The thing that I find annoying is that so many websites have their own little conventions rather than sticking to straight html.
By Cjeanr on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 12:17 am: